It. Is. Here. Do not read unless you like ep3 spoilers
#16
Posted 28 May 2004 - 03:44 AM
Yeah, the idea that Yoda gets his ass kicked by Palpatine is something I'm not too sure about either. However I can easily see the Anakin force choking rampage. In fact it really casts new light on why he killed the galactic emperor in the first place.
Palpatine: And now young jedi it is time for you to die [zap]
Vader: [thinking to himself] I wanted to zap Luke to death. Damn it Palpatine never lets me do anything he's been holding me back. And what about that time he wouldnt let me go to Endor to battle Luke? Or when he made me go raid the rebel base? Argh it's tantrum time!!! [toss]
And here's something else that Lucas is going to have to skirt around. Leia has memories of her mother. Luke does not. This is from ROTJ. Who wants to bet me that Lucas won't forget this? I'll take any money that Lucas doesn't bother with this fact and just goes right on making crap up.
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#17
Posted 28 May 2004 - 03:47 AM
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#18 Guest_Helena_*
Posted 28 May 2004 - 05:25 AM
There's no way either of them could remember anything about her if she died just after they were born. The fact that Leia has memories and Luke doesn't just makes it even more stupid.
#19
Posted 28 May 2004 - 07:41 AM
EXT. DAGOBAH SWAMP - BOG - DUSK
Luke is being taken through training exercises by the diminutive Yoda.
YODA
The dark side beckons. But if once start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will... as it did Obi-wan's apprentice.
LUKE
Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
YODA
No... From a certain point of view. Count not do I, the time the Emperor handed me my little green ass when finally we met. Fluke it was. The destruction of the Jedi had I on my mind. Concentrate you would not be able too with all those ghosts appearing to you.
Luke looks quizically at Yoda.
YODA
That rock you now will lift. Nothing more will I tell you now. Clear your mind of questions... Quiet now be... at peace...
Yoda
#20
Posted 29 May 2004 - 12:35 PM
Die you prick!
I have no clue if this is true or not, hopefully not. There seems to be an awful lot of shit gong on, and Lucas does not want to make this film longer than 2 hours.
#21 Guest_Commoner_*
Posted 30 May 2004 - 09:04 AM
Of course, this only works if Anakin is GOOD in the first place, that all of his decisions are based on semi-altruistic means. Okay, I'm not that good on history, but weren't the Nazi's intentions based on ideas to save their country from a depression/economic slump? Didn't they want to "purify" their country. I mean, okay, it's not altruistic, but the intentions behind it are semi-noble, just execution (sorry) was flawed and amoral.
I don't see that in these movies. What are Palpatine's motives? Is it to purge it of Jedi? Is that the sole reason for his rise to power? Was he trying to make the galaxy safer? (for what reason, from whom?) I mean, what is Anakin's incentive for joining him? The TF and Separatists were hardly threats, if you ask me----and this is my big beef---there should've been battles----the Separatist should've been shown causing damage, causing havoc (sorry, Amidala's assassination attempt isn't enough to convince me that they are such a big threat). It's all narrative that is so loosey-goosey!!!
Anyway, nothing in the backstory is convincing or good enough....
#22 Guest_Helena_*
Posted 30 May 2004 - 11:20 AM
Of course, this only works if Anakin is GOOD in the first place, that all of his decisions are based on semi-altruistic means. Okay, I'm not that good on history, but weren't the Nazi's intentions based on ideas to save their country from a depression/economic slump? Didn't they want to "purify" their country. I mean, okay, it's not altruistic, but the intentions behind it are semi-noble, just execution (sorry) was flawed and amoral.
It's Vader we're supposed to hate, not Anakin. Like you said, his redemption makes no sense whatsoever unless he was actually a likeable character in the first place - which he isn't. Anakin was supposed to be a good but flawed character who finally gave in to his 'darker side' - but judging by his behaviour in Episode II and the plot summary for Ep III (if it's correct), he's an immature, emotionally illiterate psychopath.
He spends the whole of Ep II whining, whinging and moaning about how the Jedi are 'holding him back', and arrogantly proclaiming himself more powerful than Obi-Wan. He breaks his Jedi vows without a thought when he falls in love with Padme, and starts an affair with her behind his master's back. He abandons an important mission to go and search for his mother, slaughters an entire village of people in revenge for her death, and doesn't even show any guilt afterwards.
In the proposed EP III plot, he cold-bloodedly murders a defeated and helpless opponent who was begging him for mercy. He becomes Palpatine's follower seemingly for no other reason than personal gain, and to spite the Jedi who refuse to recognise his supreme wonderfulness. He helps Palpatine murder Mace Windu and then lies about it to the Senate, convincing them that the Jedi are corrupt (although he himself has seen no evidence of this, and must realise that it is not the case). He slaughters a group of innocent children and anyone who tries to protect them, then has the nerve to go to Padme and tell her he did it for the greater good - only to repay her trust and loyalty by badly injuring her later on. And all this, mind you, BEFORE he becomes Vader!
Does this Anakin sound like the 'good man' described by Obi-Wan? His actions are those of a man with no conscience, no self-control, no sense of reponsibility and no idea of right or wrong apart from what benefits him personally. Amazingly, he actually comes across as MORE sympathetic as Darth Vader in RotJ, where he performs an altruistic, self-sacrificing act for the first and only time in his life. Unfortunately this scene no longer makes any sense - how can Luke feel the 'good' in his father when there was seemingly never any there in the first place?
#23
Posted 30 May 2004 - 01:43 PM
I forgot that the Vader character can read minds. So let's presume that he knows what Shmi and Qui-Gon were discussing. Darn right he's the best. And Watto was holding him back too. Next time we return to Tatooine (sigh) maybe he could give watto the sandpeople treatment. (Further Explanation: I'm sure the Tuscan Raiders were holding him back, also)
So yeah, he's p.o.'d at everyone. And the fact that he can read the Emporer's mind explains their lack of scenes together. I'm sure those scenes will make it onto the amended DVD's. (Which we'd never learn about without outside sources )
#24
Posted 30 May 2004 - 09:33 PM
Why? Lucas has fucked up alot of things in the prequesl so far, however, I cannot believe he will make ANakin:
1. Solely responsible for Padme's death
and
2. Kill a group of jedi children.
There will be absolutley no possible way that there could be any good from Anakin if this is to happen. He is pure evil from beginning to end. Why would you give a fuck is he is redeemed by ROTJ, nothing he had done in his entire life up until then would give you any indication that he had any trace of good in him.
I am getting to the point where I am going to have to tel my future children that Lucas only made 3 Star Wars films, the new trilogy never existed.
#25
Posted 30 May 2004 - 10:02 PM
yep... Anikan should have been alot more like Boromir, and alot less like Gollum!
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#26
Posted 30 May 2004 - 10:08 PM
Spot on, Barend! Again, evidence that if Lucas is going to steal from a source, he might as well do it right!
Damn straight, Helena! Evidence again that Lucas is being inconsistent with his characters. How many times can I say what a shame and what a waste the prequels are!
This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 30 May 2004 - 10:11 PM
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
#27
Posted 30 May 2004 - 11:34 PM
-The scene opens as Anakin fights Obi Wan above a pit of lava that I'm sure Lucas will title Dount Moom-
Anakin: You has the mediclorians and we wants them back!
Obi Wan: What are you talking about you crazy little bastard?
Anakin: -suddenly deciding to have some spoken monlogue- Master Obi Wan is our friend!
Anakin: You don't have any friends, nobody likes you but some guy you were never even introduced to.
Anakin: Go away!
Anakin: Not until you take the precious mediclorians from him! He'll hold you back precious, hold you back he will!
Anakin: Oh alright!
Anakin: HEHEHEHEHEHE
Obi Wan: Are you quite done yet? How you became a jedi knight I don't know, there weren't any sith around for you to kill like I did.
Anakin: Wicked tricksy false master! I'll take your mediclorians, then I be the master! -Bites off Obi Wan's finger, sucking out his mediclorians and then dancing like an idiot til he falls in the lava and loses all his limbs-
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#28
Posted 31 May 2004 - 12:00 AM
And not seeing Padme is acceptable being as the Jedi don't really encourage such relationships. However I will now address all of the reasons why Shmi should have been freed either late in ep1 or early in ep2.
Firstly Obi Wan is no father. The only way he even got to be a jedi was cutting some red painted jerk ass in half. And yet we are supposed to believe that Obi Wan, was able to take time out of his days of battling sith lords and trade federations and non-sensical idealist seperatists to raise Anakin? From a purely functional point of view it would have been best for Obi Wan to snatch up Shmi and tell her to take care of Anakin.
Next there is the fact that Anakin would likely miss his mother. Granted the character portrayed in ep1 would probably be rather busy piloting various silly craft and yelling yippiee a lot but a real human being would have made some sort of statement of longing for the one who brought them into the world. Maybe I'm wrong though, Maybe Anakin was raised by his father. Maybe mediclorians bathed him and made sure he ate his greens and got to bed on time. Yes, certainly it was the mediclorians.
Also there is the fact that Shmi, despite how she was portrayed in ep1, would have wondered about her only child, ESPECIALLY once she was freed. I don't care how little power the republic has on Tatooine they could still have found some way to free her. Here's what any being on earth would have done as soon as they were given a lightsaber.
Anyone: Hello Watto, you have my mother and I want her. I will pay you.
Watto: Though I would normally accept payment for the purposes of proving this point I will not accept your payment.
Anyone: Than look at my lightsaber. Observe, it can cut through this leather work boot with ease and even filet a tomatoe.
Watto: Right, one mother coming right up.
But apparently the council would have frowned on someone liberating another being from slavery, or maybe Obi Wan held him back from it. Sure that's acceptable, Obi Wan held him back and that would explain why he's so vengeful and angry with the jedi in general.... EXCEPT THAT THIS NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED! You see Lucas? You could have made your whole movie make sense if you thought about it and if you turned Obi Wan into a jerk. But no, We never gather that Obi Wan kept Anakin from going to save Shmi.
Also there's the fact that Shmi gained her freedom and then, upon doing so, never bothered to look for her son, who she must have heard of being as he was an intergalactic hero or something. And even if Shmi didnt want to see her son for some reason wouldn't Watto have made a connection between Anakin's newfound fame and possible financial gain?
And another thing, why did Shmi just hand Anakin over to a bunch of strange aliens? When you think about it she might have done the same for anyone. I'm starting to wonder about Shmi's mental state and her fitness to raise a child.
Anakin: I put some bantha poodoo in my shoes and jumped up and down like you told me to mom.
Shmi: Good boy. Now help me write some crazy leaflets to distribute around the planet.
Anakin: What are you writing leaflets about mom, all the other kids make fun of me because you're insane, even little Greedo...
Shmi: Nonsense, they're the ones who are crazy! I'm writing leaflets about why a bunch of star systems and trade federations should randomly secede from the republic!
Anakin: That dosn't even make sense...
Darth Maul: Hello Missus Skywalker, I have crash landed on this planet and was hoping your son could help me.
Shmi: Huh, oh sure he can help you, he was meant to help you. Anakin go with the nice man.
Anakin: But mom he has horns...
Shmi: Go with him or I'll make you oil the rancor again!
Anakin: Eep!
Darth Maul: That's right kid, come to Darthy KWAHAHAHAHA!
Shmi: Have fun!
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#29 Guest_Helena_*
Posted 31 May 2004 - 05:04 AM
Yeah, that's a good point actually. Why on earth didn't she go and look for Anakin herself? You'd have thought it would be one of the first things she'd do after she was freed. Even if she didn't know how to contact him, at the very least she could have sent a message addressed to 'Anakin Skywalker, The Jedi Temple, Coruscant' and it would surely have got to him.
And another thing: For a slave, Shmi's life didn't seem too bad at all. She had a reasonably comfortable home and plenty of food, and there's no evidence that Watto overworked her or mistreated her in any way. Ironically, if she'd remained a slave she would probably still be alive! Oh well, at least she was spared the shame of seeing what a complete prick her beloved son had turned into...
Oh, and barend, love the Boromir/Gollum analogy. "They's holding me back, preciousssss..."
#30
Posted 31 May 2004 - 09:24 PM
who'd take on that baggage?
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