[Jordan]

This ENTIRE article was posted above. You know what I think Mr.Whogivesaflyingfuck, who gives a flying fuck what you think.

Ok, some guy, like you thinks the same way. He wrote an article about it. I find it hard to believe that a large number of people think Lucas is a racist.

No Asian Jedi, we cry. Asian based race, we cry. While we're all at it, there was no Native's either. I also failed to see a single half asian half black female.


Why don't you post some nice pictures about how white people take all the lead roles in SW. It's informative and funny all at the same time. Yay!

You're a PC thug. You instigate stupid arguments over trivial topics.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 09 November 2004 - 12:57 AM

[barend]

man, this the 'the passion' argument all over again...

it's some shit that happend...
the jews were there, the romans were there, satan was walking around somewhere...

SW is some shit that didn't happen... so who gives a fuck who's left out...
I hate lucas more than anyone... but it's his prequels to his films... his only job is to make sure they match in continuity and quality (mission failed BTW), but as for who is and isn't in there...

---unimportant---

how many races are there in the world? like what a hundred?
lets say there are 62 races in the world...

what if you make a film that has only 10 people in it...

seriously folks???? am i getting through to anyone...?

You're a PC thug

don't worry... i've been called agreasy thug too...

[Jordan]

Ya I suppose it's not really an issue.

[barend]

it shouldn't be...

[Hannibal]

[barend]

now what the hell is that about?!?

[Hannibal]

[civilian_number_two]

Hey, this cracks me up:

The Google ad I just saw on the footer of the "view new posts" results page included an ad for tourist information to Hannibal, Missouri. I shit you not.

Guess that's what happens when you post 13.5 messages per day!

[Just your average movie goer]

Wow... you guys are going hard at it.

I'm just going to throw my own 50 Won's worth in and leave it there -

1. In most cases, the exclusion of different racial groups doesn't imply racism.
2. The enforcement of negative racial stereotypes does.
3. It'd be nice if there were Asian Jedi in Star Wars but if there aren't, it's no problem.
4. What Lucas did with the Neumonodians DID strike me as racist. However -
5. These movies already have hundreds of other problems with them so in the end, who really cares?

As you were, gentlemen.

[Jordan]

That was well put JYAMG.

side note ----


It's ironic that one of the most hated internet features is actually a source of entertainment here at Chefelf forums. Banner Ads.


We literally took shit and turned it into gold.

[Just your average movie goer]

I like the way that they all seem to targeted to the topics. I have no idea how they do that but it's pretty clever.

[Xombie]

If someone makes a film about an English boarding school in the 1930s and it doesn't have any black people in it, I have no problem with that. The argument that such a setting at such a time was likely to lack nonwhite people is a pretty convincing one.

Lucas did not make a film about a time and place where black people didn't exist. He pulled his setting out of his imagination. It could be as racially diverse or as homogenous as he wanted it to be. He chose to make a universe in which (in the initial film) black people were invisible.

The question is: If Lucas is not a racist, what other reason would explain his decision to make his universe lily-white? How does the whiteness of both the Empire and the rebels add in any way to the film?

[Hannibal]

"Lucas did not make a film about a time and place where black people didn't exist. He pulled his setting out of his imagination. It could be as racially diverse or as homogenous as he wanted it to be. He chose to make a universe in which (in the initial film) black people were invisible."

In a film which intentionally depicts and shows hundreds of races in settings where multiracial peoples and beings from hundreds of planets gather to represent their homeworlds, its a bit odd to have all these races where "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" most 'humans' are white. Not to mention if Lucas wants to appeal to mass audiences to sell his toys, why not have a smattering of various kinds of people? The point is he HAS a smattering of all kinds of people, and when you see blacks, asians and others, they are rediculous stereotypes.





"The question is: If Lucas is not a racist, what other reason would explain his decision to make his universe lily-white? How does the whiteness of both the Empire and the rebels add in any way to the film?"

I think Lucas is just an ignorant white boy from Modesto who never met a black person or asian when he was a kid, and is totally depending on 50s B-movie depictions of other ethnic groups to fill in for the already poor writing skills he has.
The fascination with Nazis doesn't help him either, and as for adding token races because some people might demand it: its sad, but not inconsistant with Lucas moronic way of dealing with the public. He makes shit prequels, and lets down a great number of fans because what they wanted wasn't in Episode I. So in Episode II, because of public outcry, he reduces screen time of Jar Jar binks and 'NSYNC gets cut because fans were laughing at him. He does add and remove things from his films for a variety of stupid reasons. Take the Special Editions: he takes the time to give Boba Fett an australian/NZ accent, and reshoot the Emperors scene in Empire Strikes Back, but completely ignores bad editing during the Wampa scene. He makes sure to put in the Jabba scene in Episode 4, which is useless to the film, but then doesn't add the Biggs scene at the beginning which would help explain why he added Biggs at the end and how Luke knows him, etc, why his death on screen is an emotional downer--in reality his death is a useless and funny as the death of Porkins.

Lucas adds and subtracts to what he thinks will appeal to the audience, and yet the audience still says its shit, and wants something else. He says he doesn't care what the audience thinks, yet does all this shit. He added two black people in Episode 4 digitally on Tatooine in the Special Editions: why?

He can say he can't win the politically correct game, but the reality is that in his "all inclusive" star wars galaxy with universally generic religion and generic evil empire, and a mythically constructed story designed to apeal to as many people as possible, he is also exclusive. Exclusive by design? Probably not. However the negative stereotypes created by an ignorant coddled child from Modesto do not help him either.

Need asian jedi? no. Probably not. Need buck-tooth rice eating slant eyed fu man chu coke-bottle glasses wearing stereotypes? Definitely not. The case still stands, George Lucas is an ignorant fool in a big way, and these films are mainly for white people. Its sad but its true. You can complain all you want about people not being included, or you can complain about Hannibal's 'conspiracy theories' but it still doesn't change the fact that George Lucas is a turd-eating greedy talentless fool who probably wishes the world was white all over.

[Vwing]

You see Hannibal, that was a really good post. I still disagree with some of what you say, but that was very good, it was your own words, and it made some good points. That's all I wanted you to do in the other thread.

Now, on to this, I personally think he has been fine with black people in his movies, Lando is one of the best black characters in all of sci-fi, he's really not a stereotype, and he is very important to the final victory. Mace Windu is a bad character, but not a bad stereotypical character, and he did try to make a good, strong black Jedi (read Shatterpoint by Matt Stover to see how Mace Windu SHOULD have been depicted in the movies, really good book).

As for the Asians, I agree with the Neimoidians, and for that matter, many of the other bad guys. Maybe it's just because I'm Jewish, but didn't the guy from the Banking Clan seem like a typical Jewish accountant? Now I don't give a crap about that, but it is very weird. In the greater scope of things, however, the Neimoidians really pale in comparison with other, non-racial problems in the movie, as JYAMG, and they are not featured in the movie enough to truly be a problem. And there is more than one Asian Jedi. There is an Indian Jedi, an Asian female, and on the Jedi council, there is an alien who seemed very much like an old wise Asian of the Kung Fu pictures. Kind of like if the guy from Kill Bill 2 was made into an alien. So he has included Asian Jedi, and even includes one in the highest of positions.

And in the next movie, let's not forget, he did cast Bai Ling as an important senator, among other Asians that he's casted, so he is getting more diversity there.

I'm curious, though, on your take on the LOTR movies. They did not have one black character. Not one black extra. Personally, I don't care, but do you (and this is a general you) think it's racist? I know a bunch of people who say the blacks are the orcs who are battling the whites, and I thought it was ridiculous. The same goes, in part, for Star Wars. It's the same reason why there were so many British extras in the OT, because everyone knows the British are terrifying bad guys. But really, there were British people because those were the people available where they filmed, and in the same way, there wouldn't be that many of other ethnic groups immediately available where Lucas films. This is why he does have one or two Asians and other ethnic groups, and I think that is more the reason than any racist views.

One note, the coke-bottle alien, what does that have to do with a stereotype? Are Asians depicted with coke-bottle eyes or something, that was the only thing I didn't get.

And I want all of us to realize, it is tough to discuss something like this, because no one really knows what's going through Lucas's head except Lucas. For all we know, he IS a racist bastard, or a Nazi/fascist bastard, or for all we know, the pictures were just honest coincidences, or it's somewhere in between. In my mind, it's much easier to argue about his skills, something we can discern from the movies, than his views, something that is really much tougher to make out.

[Hannibal]

"Now, on to this, I personally think he has been fine with black people in his movies, Lando is one of the best black characters in all of sci-fi, he's really not a stereotype, and he is very important to the final victory. Mace Windu is a bad character, but not a bad stereotypical character, and he did try to make a good, strong black Jedi (read Shatterpoint by Matt Stover to see how Mace Windu SHOULD have been depicted in the movies, really good book)."

I am sorry, but I always wanted Larry Fishburne to be Boba Fett, long before the Matrix ever inspired a school shooting. I saw Lawrence Fishburne, and I was like he LOOKS like Boba Fett, WITHOUT a mask.



Sorry, Boba Fett will always be black in my mind. He will always be Larry Fishburne, but thats just me.


"As for the Asians, I agree with the Neimoidians, and for that matter, many of the other bad guys. Maybe it's just because I'm Jewish, but didn't the guy from the Banking Clan seem like a typical Jewish accountant? "

You think the guy from the Banking Clan was Jewish? LOL! You fail to agree with the dozens of antisemitic things in Star Wars and you think the banking clan guy was jewish. No, I see your point, but its funny, and after all you're whining, I have to say you really are hard to believe.


"Now I don't give a crap about that, but it is very weird. "

yeah...you ever hear of the old jewish conspiracy theory about international jewish bankers taking over the world? No? Guess what? Star Wars IS that old jewish conspiracy theory retold. Thats why he looks Jewish, why Watto, why Ian McDirmid, all of it.


"In the greater scope of things, however, the Neimoidians really pale in comparison with other, non-racial problems in the movie, as JYAMG, and they are not featured in the movie enough to truly be a problem. And there is more than one Asian Jedi. There is an Indian Jedi, an Asian female, and on the Jedi council, there is an alien who seemed very much like an old wise Asian of the Kung Fu pictures. Kind of like if the guy from Kill Bill 2 was made into an alien. So he has included Asian Jedi, and even includes one in the highest of positions."

To counteract the evil Chinese aliens? Its already been said, Lucas stole asian cultural things for his films, but unconsciously, he's added antiasian elements, he a typical american hyppocrite like a politician.



"I'm curious, though, on your take on the LOTR movies. They did not have one black character. Not one black extra. Personally, I don't care, but do you (and this is a general you) think it's racist? I know a bunch of people who say the blacks are the orcs who are battling the whites, and I thought it was ridiculous. "

You don't want to hear my review of LOTR, believe me, not here not now.



"One note, the coke-bottle alien, what does that have to do with a stereotype? Are Asians depicted with coke-bottle eyes or something, that was the only thing I didn't get."

In old films, the comical asian stereotype was a guy with buck teeth and thick round glasses, referred to as coke bottle lenses. The goggles are a techno version of coke-bottle lenses.



"And I want all of us to realize, it is tough to discuss something like this, because no one really knows what's going through Lucas's head except Lucas. For all we know, he IS a racist bastard, or a Nazi/fascist bastard, or for all we know, the pictures were just honest coincidences, or it's somewhere in between. In my mind, it's much easier to argue about his skills, something we can discern from the movies, than his views, something that is really much tougher to make out."


Yes, perhaps, but there is no reason not to. It will continue. Just as people will continue talking about how crappy a director he is.