[barend]

I belive people should require a license before they become parents

i've been saying that for a long time...

too many stupid people are having kids. we're being bread out to make way for their way of life. wich is why i think i'll not have kids, they'll be more outnumbered by stupid people then i am, thanks to the fact the all TV wil be Reality TV. and only music manufactured by pepsi gets on the radio. in fact it would be a 24hr a day job to prevent my kids from becoming stupid.

[Heccubus]

I agree to certain extent, Barend. The system is cruelly unfair at times, but on the other hand, my mother has never received enough to support three kids, two when my oldest sister was taken off (at 21), or even one when my other sister hit 21. And for a period of over 5 years, my father didn't pay a penny. Now, my mother is going to court to try and get the support increased, and their reasoning for not raising it involves things like us "never approaching him directly for help with educational costs", and so on. As if it's OUR fault that he screwed her out of thousands and hasn't made the effort to help HIS OWN KIDS with the costs of their education. Needless to say, I think the child support system is shit overall, I don't care who it's unfair to.

[barend]

that annoys me evn more!!!

all the nice guys who did nothing wrong are getting screwed, and all the jerks are getting away with diminshed responsibility.

maybe i should stop being a nice guy.

[looktothesky]

(pointless random thought)

I like it...

[SimeSublime]

If all us nice guys just decided to give it up, then the world wouldn't be worth living in. Plus, you wouldn't be a nice guy now if you could be something else. Try being mean to people for no reason, and you'll soon see. You're a nice person because thats what you want to be.

[Just your average movie goer]

SimeSubline, that's one of the best things I've read for a while. It's so simple and so true. If we tried to be mean guys, we would end up punishing ourselves for it afterwards - assuming we could even stand ourselves. No, once a nice guy, always a nice guy. There's no choice - it's our nature. And it's a good thing too.

[barend]

I could be a great buy guy...

cause most bad guys are just inconsiderate solipsistic sociopaths...

where as I am just a very polite and considerate evil mastermind.
If I changed teams, I could dominate the other bad guys and lead them off a cliff...

[Supes]

I went through a divorce recently (horror of horrors.) I'd waited to get married, and it seemed that we had a lot in our favor, just didn't work out. She wasn't happy married (to me, or prior- that's her problem we both agree) and I've always wanted for her to be happy.

You have just described the last 12 months of my life in these few words Despondant. Divorce is a bitch, but it's much better when it's amicable. I'm lucky that my ex-wife and I are still friends and we both became awre of the issues aroundthe same time.

[Supes]

[quote=barend,Jun 20 2004, 07:56 AM] the whole institute seems do be based on taxing the hell out of me...
here's what i have to do in so-called ideal fairytale existence...
[/quote]
I can see your worries Barend, but it does not always turn out like that. Allow me to elaborate:

Quote

I have to build up the courage to ask the girl out.

That was never really a worry for me, but I've never been self-conscious about asking out girls.

Quote

I have to pay for her meal

More often than not we took it in turns to pay for meals. If one of us was short cash then the other would pay. I'd take her out on special occasions and she's do the same for me.

Quote

I have to buy her flowers

I never did this on the "special" occasions. I always bought flowers when I felt like it on random days. It seemed to get a better reaction.

Quote

I will have to resolve every argument without being told what the problem is or being alowed to ask what the problem is...*

I'll leave this one out due to the tongue in cheek nature.

Quote

I have to spend at least 4 months wages on an engagement ring

I'll agree, this can be a tough one and personally I'm still paying for it. But it comes down to the girl. I know quite a few that don't have to have the biggest and brightest ring. Some do! Mine did and at the time I wanted to give it to her also.

Quote

I have to risk humiliation by asking her to marry me

Again, no problem here. We had both talked about it and I knew that she wanted to get married. It's one of those things that if you don't know the answer before you ask the question then you have not done the necessary spade work you should have done.

Quote

I have to buy a home for us

This was something that both of us were goig to be doing. It was alweays going to be a join purchase.

Quote

I will probably have to pay for the wedding

Our parents split the cost of the reception and we split the cost of the rest of the wedding/honeymoon. Traditionally it is still the brides parents that are supposed to pay for the wedding so if you were really desperate you could play that card if you wanted B.

Quote

I will have to spend god knows how much on a wedding ring

These are not that expensive. It's the engagement ring that racks up the credit card. And she usually pays for your wedding ring.

Quote

I will pay for most things, untill she inevitably decides shes more attracted to some guy she met at a nightclub, or a friend of mine, or some guy she previously wanted to go out with but just became available.

It didn't happen that way for me. We split costs of things and she didn't run off with anyone else. We just discovered that we were heading in different directions.

I will have my heart torn out

If you go through divorce then yes you most likely will. Can't help that unfortunately.

I will have the pleasure of financing her new relationship for the rest of my life while i live on 20-30% of my pay.

Again, didn't work out that way for me, but we had an amicable break up. We basically divided up everything we owned and worked out who needed what and who had the greater claim to certain things such as wedding albumns etc. Tough job, but we were both adult about it so now neither of us pays for the other.

I will have to get over my newly developed but justified 'trust issues, and ask out another girl just get screwed over again.

I'll keep you posted on this if you like, but it seems to be working fine for me at the moment? I'm dating a gorgeous girl who clearly loves me very much. She has met my ex and they seem to get on well enough. I've also met my ex's new partner and he seems quite cool.

Well that's all I can give you I suppose. It's just a single case, but it's not all bad and given the right girl, I'd do it again.

This post has been edited by Supes: 20 June 2004 - 10:47 PM

[Laura]

Yeah, Barend, you just need to find a girl who doesn't care about that crap. I promise you they exist. Let's take a few examples.

Asking out: Except for the time I was asked out by a girl, I've either done the asking or reached a mutual agreement to date. Look, if I like a person, I have just as much responsibility to bring up the idea of Something More Than Friends as have they. Are there even girls in this day and age who sit around waiting for the man to ask them out just because "that's how it's done"?

Paying: This is a tradition rooted in the days when women didn't have jobs. In a certain light, paying for a woman unquestioningly implies that you don't believe she could make her own money. While I freely admit that I'm bad at making money, I don't believe it's because I'm a woman, but simply because I'm a spaz. I'd like a date to get to know that about me as a person, not to judge me based on the fact that I'm wearing a skirt.

Flowers: Who wants flowers? They're not good for anything and they die in a day. I might be charmed if a date picked me a flower to wear in my hair, but buying flowers from a florist? I'd be mad at my boyfriend for wasting the money.

As the decisions get more important (marriage, home, etc.) it gets even more important that the choice be made as equal partners. If you really believe that you will always be carrying the weight of the relationship, you are probably scaring off cool modern girls with your outdated, sexist attitudes.

[Supes]

I should also note that you have to be careul JYAMG when attempting to be a gentleman.

I had an experience once where I opened the car door for a female friend and she bit my head off. Began ranting at me that she was not incapable of opening her own door and how condescending it was for me to do such a thing.

When I got her calmed down she basically explained that she viewed it as a man showing his supremecy and dominance. I laughed at her and told her I only opened the door because I had come to that side of the car and unlocked it because I wanted to move something off the front seat.

Needless to say she was somewhat embarrassed, but it was a lesson learned. She also should have know that I did not hold those sort of bizzare ideas. We'd been friends for long enough for her to know better.

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, I know the type of girls who do that. But I'm not really close friends with anyone like that. My girlfriend for one, appreciates it as a kind gesture - and Korean women in general, with Korea being a more traditional society than Australia, appreciate consideration too.

I kind of get angry with girls who take a bit of consideration the wrong way. They have to wake up to themselves a bit and look at the intention with which special considerations are given. In most cases, it's an act of kindness. To respond to an act of kindness by getting all aggressive is quite uncalled for.

I wonder how these girls would respond if they were in Japan, running after their boyfriends who rode a bike, while they walked - or riding their bike, while their fat boyfriend hung lazily off the back, smoking a cigarette....

No, don't worry, Supes. I know the types of girls you mean - I met a few in my university days. However, I generally avoid them. I think there are probably a lot more girls who appreciate gentlemen than girls who don't.

[Supes]

No, don't worry, Supes. I know the types of girls you mean - I met a few in my university days. However, I generally avoid them. I think there are probably a lot more girls who appreciate gentlemen than girls who don't.

That's the funny thing. She is a really great and nice girl. We had had a hundred discussions about feminism and the changing roll of women in society and about modern and old values. So she knew my position and I thought I knew hers. She had never given any indication that she had such strong convictions about such little matters or that she had such a strange conception of the meaning of this act.

It was very surreal. we are still very good friends and always have been.

[Just your average movie goer]

Strange. Well, I'm glad the incident didn't damage the friendship any.

[Heccubus]

Sounds like Supes just got very lucky and found a couple of the nice ones.

At any rate, I've done the asking out just as much as past girlfriends have, so I'd say it depends on who happens to get there first in most instances.

I've always sort of preferred eating in with special someones (cooking a meal usually means more than paying for one), so I can't say much on the eating out issue. If/when the occasion does arise, it's usually been an "I'll pay this time, you pay next time" agreement.

I've only ever bought flowers for my mother, so nothing there. I think Supes had it spot on when he said that he usually bought them randomly, for no particular reason, rather than on special occasions. Special occasions should be marked by something more than some plants.

After that, I have nothing to offer.