[civilian_number_two]

The real question I suppose is: if everything is retro now, will there be a definable Turn-of-the-Century period to be retro about in 20 years? I ask because I pretty much have no idea what's on the radio now.

[barend]

Argh. Don't even joke about it.

Many of those movies (ENTER THE NINJA, REVENGE OF THE NINJA, MASTER NINJA, NINJA III: THE DOMINATION, NINJA GRAFFITI, PULP NINJA) are available on DVD, but not all on region 2, if that's an issue for you; check eBay.

And yes to any lurkers, I made those last two up.

not really I'm region 4.

but my playa is region 0.

i take it by NINJA GRAFFITI you meant 9 DEATHS OF A NINJA and by PULP NINJA you meant BLIND FURY. or at the very least THE MASTER tv series.

Yes, I know that. I'm not saying that there's NOTHING good game out of the 80s. And, yes, I do have the album. There are a lot of really good Bad News videos on YouTube as well.

Quick: Name one band from the 70s that released equal or better music in the 80s. Since this is a matter of opinion then I think you may give me a few examples but chances are I won't agree.

Challenge!

Well outside Hecs wonderful selection....

Iron Maiden, Killing Joke, David Bowie (well.. Scary Monsters was awsome), Devo, Dio, Cliff Richard I guess...

[barend]

This is all off topic, of course. I agree with Spoon and barend's assertions that the we have to be at least 10 years out of the decade before it becomes retro.

I don't think we've technically left the 90s yet. most top40 (pop) and so called 'alternative' (ie organic pop) hasn't changed a fuckin bit, save for a few bands who sound like another band from the 70s. but we already had the Black Crows and Monster Magnet doing a much better job of that than Wolfmother.

needless to say the 70s kisck major ass and cars looked their coolest. so lets try and avoid dragging that decade in.

but like i said the kick-assedness of the 70s and 80s was rocking out with its cock out, but 90s kick-assedness was a dirty little secret found in basements, seedy bars, and behind chinese laundries.

[Despondent]

Broadway musicals were better in the 80s. Sweeney (actually opened in 1979), Evita, Cats and Phantom to name a few. In the 90s Disney started churning out animated films to the stage, left and (audience) right. Wow! It's like Ice capades without the Zamboni!

This post has been edited by Despondent: 30 January 2008 - 10:18 PM

[Heccubus]

I ask because I pretty much have no idea what's on the radio now.

It's pretty much the exact same shit that was on the radio at the tail end of the 90s, just with better production. As always, while college radio still sucks, it's a hell of a lot better.

Just find a good online station and listen to that if you need radio. Indie 103.1 is pretty decent most of the time.

[Spoon Poetic]

I listen to Pandora for that reason. I'm so tired of rock bands singing out of the back of their throats, and rappers talking about abusing drugs and women to a grand total of 3 notes and the same measure of syncopated 8th notes over and over again.

[Slade]

It's actually not that they sing out of the backs of their throats; it's that they jam their tongues into the backs of their mouths. I know this because I can't help but make fun of the shitty vocal style whenever I hear it. You're definitely right that it sucks, and right about the rap. It almost makes me miss the 80s rap, which was apparently about being disenfranchised and killing police.

[Spoon Poetic]

At least older hiphop/rap had some music to it. Like "Gangsta's Paradise," for instance. It's pretty repetitive and gets old after a bit, but it's actually musical, unlike most of the rap of today, that's just tough talking over a track of repetitive bass bomps and synth wee-oos.

[Slade]

Concerning kilts/flannel, I was confused and getting the material mixed up with the most common design I've seen on flannel, and which is often found on kilts as well, which wikipedia tells me is "tartan." Not a very interesting pattern. My apologies.

You're right with the 100% post-production rap albums, too. If I wanted synth wee-oos and repetitive base bomps, I'd listen to techno/electronica/synth-whatever, etc.

Edit: And apparently, I completely forgot about using the word plaid to describe the pattern mentioned above. I fear for what little sanity and intelligence I have.

This post has been edited by Slade: 31 January 2008 - 12:50 PM

[Heccubus]

I love it when people generalize about an entire genre of music without making an effort to educate themselves about it first.
Brilliant.

[Spoon Poetic]

First of all, I said "most," and second of all, if you look at the general context of the conversation, you'll see that I was referring to music that is played on the radio. So I was not talking about an entire genre of music.
(I love when people twist my words and say I did something that I didn't. Also brilliant.)

[civilian_number_two]

This is all contemporary rap is to me (Beastie Boys and Eminem notwithstanding):

[Chorus 2X: Shug - singing] + (Djay)
You know it's hard out here for a pimp (you ain't knowin)
When he tryin to get this money for the rent (you ain't knowin)
For the Cadillacs and gas money spent (you ain't knowin)
[1] Because a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain't knowin)
[2] Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain't knowin)

[Djay]
In my eyes I done seen some crazy thangs in the streets
Gotta couple hoes workin on the changes for me
But I gotta keep my game tight like Kobe on game night
Like takin from a ho don't know no better, I know that ain't right
Done seen people killed, done seen people deal
Done seen people live in poverty with no meals
It's fucked up where I live, but that's just how it is
It might be new to you, but it's been like this for years
It's blood sweat and tears when it come down to this shit
I'm tryin to get rich 'fore I leave up out this bitch
I'm tryin to have thangs but it's hard fo' a pimp
But I'm prayin and I'm hopin to God I don't slip, yeah

[Chorus]

[Djay]
Man it seems like I'm duckin dodgin bullets everyday
Niggaz hatin on me cause I got, hoes on the tray
But I gotta stay paid, gotta stay above water
Couldn't keep up with my hoes, that's when shit got harder
North Memphis where I'm from, I'm 7th Street bound
Where niggaz all the time end up lost and never found
Man these girls think we prove thangs, leave a big head
They come hopin every night, they don't end up bein dead
Wait I got a snow bunny, and a black girl too
You pay the right price and they'll both do you
That's the way the game goes, gotta keep it strictly pimpin
Gotta have my hustle tight, makin change off these women, yeah

[Chorus]

[Heccubus]

First of all, I said "most," and second of all, if you look at the general context of the conversation, you'll see that I was referring to music that is played on the radio. So I was not talking about an entire genre of music.
(I love when people twist my words and say I did something that I didn't. Also brilliant.)

And I was referring to exactly what you're saying you were. To illustrate my point, here's an actual experience:
I challenged a friend that produced hip hop beats that I called "boring and repetitive"--and quite similar to what you would hear on the radio--to what I guess you would call a "produce-off". I assumed that with my experience as a musician, I would be just as qualified to produce a loop-based, non-sampled beat for a hip hop track as he is. In the end, what he came up with kicked the shit out of what I was able to output. It requires talent to produce something that people will actually like, and I think it's been proven that people do like this music, regardless of its artistic merit. Building a track from scratch, or even just a single loop, takes time, dedication, and talent. The Neptunes, Timbaland, Dr. Dre, and others of their ilk have all developed unique sounds and styles of production, a lot of which carries over into other genres as well. You can't just say "hip hop on the radio sucks because I don't like the lyrical content, and it's repetitive". I don't like the lyrical content of most pop, but I'm at least willing to give credit to the people who bust their asses producing the musical half of those songs. Not to mention the fact that most music IS repetitive to a certain extent. The reason hip hop instrumentals are repetitive is because we're not supposed to be paying attention to the beat. The focus is on the verses, the chorus, the storytelling, or the message.
It's not like I was attacking you personally, I'm just sick of people badmouthing something while exercising a total lack of understanding or appreciation for the amount of effort that artists put into it.

This post has been edited by Heccubus: 31 January 2008 - 09:06 PM

[Spoon Poetic]

I never said it sucks. I said I was tired of those particular songs that are "rappers talking about abusing drugs and women to a grand total of 3 notes and the same measure of syncopated 8th notes over and over again." I have every right to be tired of those songs, and never did I say that every rap/hiphop song was this thing that I'm tired of. Just like I said I'm also tired of rock bands singing out of the back of their throats, but never asserted that every rock band is doing that these days. I completely understand it takes some talent to come up with something that will get any radio play. I've done musical research too, ya know - I've taken several university music classes, researched tons of music myself, I listen to everything I can, I am a musician (of several instruments), etc. I know it takes talent to produce anything that even one person will like. But if I wanna say I'm tired of the repetitive synthy hiphop that makes up the majority of the hiphop that gets radio play, and prefer the more musical hiphop of the past, then that's my beef. I still wasn't generalizing about a whole genre of music, nor asserting that those musicians "suck."

[Heccubus]

No you are still generalizing. You used the words "like most of the rap today". That's a huge generalization as it is, but then you're "just referring to what's on the radio". So then...

"most of the rap today" OUT OF that tiny little, maybe 10% that actually gets played on the radio.
No...not generalizing even a little bit. You're boiling down "most of the rap today" into a tiny, minuscule fraction of the hip hop scene. And even most of what gets played on the radio doesn't fall into what you're describing. You're basically describing the crunk / dirty south scenes, which are fairly small, and shrinking all the time as the more electro/old-school influenced sounds are gaining prominence. The plus side here, of course, is that I think very soon, the rap on the radio or on MTV WILL BE exactly what you're saying you still like.

And again, I can't possibly stress this enough, but you're taking me way too seriously. I'm countering your point and you're acting like I'm out to get you and make you look stupid or something. If I was going to make you look stupid, I'd just call you retarded and get on with it. I'm not that subtle.

This post has been edited by Heccubus: 31 January 2008 - 10:50 PM