[Just your average movie goer]

I just felt the urge to back up Mike's claim that Batman is a masterpiece. I personally think it is.

The story about how two men who are at the opposite side of the spectrum, yet both outcasts from society, is a very good yarn.

I find it to be a very interesting movie just for the sake of psychology - the way it carefully explores Bruce Wayne and his Batman alter-ego is very gripping and it is so well paced in the way it reveals information.

The pacing in this film is perfect.

And the conflict between Batman and the Joker is powerful stuff. Both of these men are fully realised characters, very well developed and played by two very strong actors. Their confrontations throughout the movie serve the momentum of the plot very well and when the final showdown comes, as the culmination of this story arc, it is a gripping finale indeed.

Watching the Batwing go down was one of the most memorable scenes from an action-adventure movie I've seen in a long time.

I'll keep this post short but I felt this film can rightfully be called a masterpiece. It was one of the strongest movies of the decade in which it was released. I saw this thing when I was in primary school - and watching it now, it still feels fresh and grips me just as it did then... perhaps more so. Batman is an enduring classic.

[civilian_number_two]

Everything dark and psychological in BATMAN had been done already quite well in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and YEAR ONE, and woule later be equalled in ARKHAM ASYLUM (perfect except for the moment where Batman basically just watches Joker kill a security guard).

Everything fun and comical anc campy in the gadget-heavy scenes and the goofy sight gags was done much better in the 1966 tv-derived film starrng Adam West.

I loved Tim Burton's BATMAN. But it didn't redefine the comic book genre as a lot of people believe. Comic books had already redefined themselves, and BATMAN was a cash-grab by a major studio that saw well after everyone else that this Batman thng might be worth something. It's a lot of fun, and I've seen it a bunch of times, but it's not a masterpiece. There are no masterpieces with Kim Basinger in them.

[Just your average movie goer]

There are no masterpieces with Kim Basinger in them.

Okay, you have a point there.

[Jordan]

I enjoyed LA CONFIDENTIAL.

[Just your average movie goer]

Yeah, you're right. That was a really strong movie and Kim Basinger was actually surprisingly good in it (so good I almost forgot I was watching Kim Basinger).

Does LA CONFIDENTIAL qualify as a masterpiece then?

It's certainly a solid film, well-crafted, well-paced with very strong performances by everyone in the cast. And it's a very intelligent thought-provoking film, while at the same time being entertaining with never a dull moment.

Good counter-argument, Jordan.

[Jordan]

I thought it was great.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 28 April 2004 - 10:21 AM

[Despondent]

I did too. I was kind of intoxicated when we all got to the cinema and we missed the opening. And I thought all the guys looked the same. ok, similar. but it had a lot of depth and was hard to follow. (ok, I was intoxicated.) but it didn't make me want to vomit like watching prequels fully sober would.

I'm sure I'd like it more if I watched it again.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

I loved Tim Burton's BATMAN. But it didn't redefine the comic book genre as a lot of people believe. Comic books had already redefined themselves, and BATMAN was a cash-grab by a major studio that saw well after everyone else that this Batman thng might be worth something. It's a lot of fun, and I've seen it a bunch of times, but it's not a masterpiece. There are no masterpieces with Kim Basinger in them.

You're right it didn't redefine the comic book genre. It redefined the comic book MOVIE genre.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Yeah, you're right. That was a really strong movie and Kim Basinger was actually surprisingly good in it (so good I almost forgot I was watching Kim Basinger).

Kim Basinger was good in Batman. I mean really, it wasn't like her role required shakespearean acting or anything.

She was also 100x better in Batman than Kirsten Dunst was in SPIDEMAN. God, could Mary Jane look any uglier???? :yuck: Yellow teeth, fake red hair and trailer trash clothes . Now there is a turn-on.

[Private Zod]

Kirsten Dunst definately has the "Two Face" thing going. Sometimes, she can look really good. Other (frequently increasing) times, she has a scary snaggletooth deal going.

[Private Zod]

The original Batman walked a fine line with me because I still could not accept Michael "Mr Mom" Keaton as Bruce Wayne/Batman. I thought that every other aspect of the film was very good and well produced. Batman Forever was alright, but teh other 2 films were complete and utter shit. I still have not seen "Batman and Robin" and refuse to for that matter. That film alone was so bad it almost ended George Clooney's film career before it began and tanked the Batman franchise until recently.

"Batman Returns"...ugh. "I am Oswald Copplepot!" What utter dredge.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

The original Batman walked a fine line with me because I still could not accept Michael "Mr Mom" Keaton as Bruce Wayne/Batman

I didn't at first either. But when I actually saw the movie, I was amazed at what a great job he did. Especially as Batman. He really took an about face with his acting style and played serious perfectly.

Keaton IMO, did sucha good job that in many ways he has BECOME Batman much in the same way that Christopher Reeves is SUPERMAN.

[civilian_number_two]

You're right it didn't redefine the comic book genre. It redefined the comic book MOVIE genre.

Well, if by that it took comic book movies from lame rip-offs of a hero's basic look with occasional hollahs to the source material, and changed them to not-so-lame rip-off of specific source material watered down by enough generic action-film garbage to make the producers less skittish, then , well, yes.

Frankly all the press around the way Tim Burton had made BATMAN "darker, edgier" than he was in the comics and in "the TV series you may remember" was pretty damned annoying. I'll try to say it again: Tim Burton's film stole all that stuff from Frank Miller (and a few others), and not all that well.

And yeah, this was the formula of X-MEN, and SPIDERMAN, and very much so DAREDEVIL (which watered down all of the plot of the Elektra story just enough to make it insubstantial, and not as refreshing as actual water). Cheap copies, with lines taken directly from the page, but without enough story or delivery to make them work. Rather like BATMAN (which I enjoyed).


So you may have me there.

[barend]

just remember... PEPSI is responsible!!!

[Despondent]

(which watered down all of the plot of the Elektra story just enough to make it insubstantial, and not as refreshing as actual water). 

Great line, Civ.

(not seen daredevil)

Do remember how excited we were that taco bell had "bat-cups" one summer, though!

ps- later that (same) year, WB released the (summer) Batman movie vhs for Christmas sales. which was a first, I believe.