[Spoon Poetic]

Only two cops came to escort him off, one for each arm per the usual. Only when he shoved them off and started fighting them did other cops become involved. No they shouldn't have used the brutality they did. But it wasn't a freedom of speech issue like people are making it out to be, that's my only point.

[Ninja Duck]

I wasn't at the speech, but I was at the subsequent march on the campus police department and then sit-in at the alumni hall (where the cops tried to keep us out, but forgot to lock the side door). The guy was obnoxious, sure, but we have yet to prove he did anything illegal. What constitutes "resisting arrest"? We're not all members of the military in this country. Cops don't outrank us, and we don't have to take orders from them. When they cut his mike, they didn't have anything to arrest him for (unless you want to pretend he was inciting a riot) and I don't blame him for struggling when some people try to drag you away.

The use of force was not justified. I'm not saying the UFPD is at fault for trying to detain him with 6 cops (I mean, come on, if you're a cop posted at a Kerry speech, what else are you going to do?) but it's pretty embarrassing that 6 cops weren't able to cuff him without weapons. Here's the UFPD's policy on use of force. In a nutshell, it says force is only justified when there is a risk of injury. Where was the risk of injury? Spittle from Meyer's angry rant? I don't know.

[barend]

MY poiny exactly.

I'd still be climbing a clocktower to sniper every jerk in that room who applauded, had it been me.

[Spoon Poetic]

I've always been told that it was against the law to physically resist a police officer whether you're in the military or not. If I'm wrong and you're allowed to try and wrestle them away, then my opinion will change a bit (but I still don't think it's a free speech issue, just a way-too-much police force for an obnoxious kid issue).

Edit: I've never not been upset about the amount of police force, though - I just thought it was stupid of the kid to get himself into trouble by struggling like he did, because I've always been taught that's illegal and you should submit first, sue later.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 26 September 2007 - 06:52 AM

[Bond]

Spoon, I always thought that was the case as well. Perchance I'm wrong, but I think as soon as he began resisting, they were authorized to use whatever force neccessary.

It's just as well, I suppose.

[barend]

asking a long question has never been a crime. it was for that that they apprehended him regarless of resistance. therefore, technically speaking, he was arrested for speaking, ergo: tasered for talking.

it's a free-speach dealie on a technicality, i'm affraid.

the tasering was part of the arrest.


I mean what was the initial charge for which they first grabbed him?

[Spoon Poetic]

Just because they were trying to escort him away from the mic doesn't mean they were trying to squelch his freedom of speech. Security is at these celebrity forums for a reason - to keep people safe, and to make things run smoothly by enforcing the rules. No, asking a long question is not a crime, but this public forum had a time limit for questions (as 95% of them do). He was given several chances to step down on his own after he went WAY past his time limit, and since he wasn't about to give up that mic, he had to be escorted away to open the floor for other people that hopefully would follow the rules. They weren't arresting him, they were escorting him away. Two cops, just two, showed up - one for each arm, and gently took his arms and started guiding him away. They weren't using much force at all even when he first started freaking out and struggling. Then the more he struggled, the harsher the police got and it escalated way way way too much, but they were not apprehending him because he asked the wrong questions or whatever. If the dude had just summed his questions up to "Why did you concede the presidency when it's pretty clear people cheated to make Bush win, and were you in that secret club with Bush?" everything would have been fine.

[barend]

So his crime was poor paraphrasing?

Just because they were trying to escort him away from the mic doesn't mean they were trying to squelch his freedom of speech

Again I have to point out the irony of that statement and clarify that law enforcement units physically removing a member of the public from a microphone is by every definition a 'squelch' on his freedom of speech. It can't possibly have been more an example of it.

They grabbed him for talking. They had no right to make physical contact at all. He was asking a question at a forum. That's what they're there for. Maybe I couldn't see the sign that said 'no questions over four words long' in the video but the whole thing is quite offensive in all respects.

I've been to Q&As before. There's always at least one long winded question but there's usually someone on stage to to do the rolling hand guesture, everyone rolls there eyes, and then the question gets answered. THat video was way over the top, and what transpired there is not something that should be tolerated in civilized society and hardly a befitting occurance to take place in the freaquently baosted 'greatest nation in the world'

[Spoon Poetic]

Yeah, I've been to them too, and when you're asked to give up the microphone, you're supposed to do it, and then however much of your question you actually got to gets answered.

(And I'm only using the word "squelch" because Slade used it and it's fun to say )

[Ninja Duck]

This incident got featured on Uncyclopedia. That's how you know it's news.

Sure, the cops have to maintain order. The difference between ejecting someone who decided to stand up on their seat and do the monster mash, or who is drinking grain alcohol through a straw from a brown paper bag, or who is asking a question, is that the person asking the question is there doing what they're supposed to be doing. Pulling him away for being long-winded makes just as much sense as arresting Kerry for being boring.

[Spoon Poetic]

Does seriously no one understand the need for time-limits on student Q&A at a celebrity public forum? That's just the way it's always been to every one I've ever been to, even non-celebrity ones, and I think it makes sense. Dudes even have a time limit on like, debates and stuff. If you go over your time, well, your fault for not being concise enough or talking too slowloy or something. I guess I'm alone here in thinking that he should have given up the microphone when he was asked for the, you know, 8th or 9th time. And it's not like they shoved him off the podium or something, they were gently guiding him away until he spazzed out. They weren't arresting him like everyone is claiming. They eventually did, yes, because he was struggling so hard, but no, they weren't coming up to arrest him for being long-winded or asking the wrong questions or whatever. Then the police force got brutal, yes. You guys act like I'm on the cops' side or something - I just think that like the Jena 6 thing, people are skewing the facts a little and getting upset about the wrong issues. It's a police brutality issue, not a free speech issue.

[?!!]

That's the way it's been for years. People have stupidified issues to make them seem more exciting. I basically agree with Spoon Poetic here, it was a public forum, not a rant-a-thon. All he had to do was ask the question. What do you think should happen if people talk for too long and don't let other people have the stand? Should we give them a cupcake?

Seriously, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. The cops didn't take him down because they didn't like what he was saying or because he didn't phrase his question correctly, he wouldn't leave, so they had to escort him off. He struggled, so they tasered him ,which was a little extreme, but that's IT. And I guess all the people were clapping because he was being an asshole and ruining the Q&A session. It's not like they hated what he had to say or something. Jesus Christ, guys.

College kids are so stupid. I'm never getting into politics.

This post has been edited by ?!!: 27 September 2007 - 01:34 PM

[Jordan]

He totally should have got tased, he's a run of the mill consipriacy arts student douche bag. Use your sense, this guy was not going to shut up. What do you do then? You make him leave.

His questions were stupid and he asked them knowing he wouldn't get a proper response or even a response at that. He probably knew this would happen. Being escorted off the stage was the strongest point he made, the tasing wasn't necessary but it was fucking hilarious.

Be honest with yourself, how else would kerry have handled it.

Kerry: yes i'm a memeber of an elite and dangerous society, the whole thing is cloak and dagger masionic hand shaking, damn you, you gay liberal douche arts student who took 3 courses in poly sci and are now an expert, you made me slip up and reveal the hidden truth.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 27 September 2007 - 02:14 PM

[Ninja Duck]

Spoon: Of course it makes sense to have time limits, and had their been a clearly-defined one, he probably would have been in violation of it. But people do that. I'm sure you have met several people in your life who were simply unable to shut up, but no one had them restrained for them. Oftentimes, the speakers will go over their allotted time, and the police never grab their arms and gently guide them away. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the fact remains that it was just him talking that started the process that got him tased. Maybe I need to go back and look at the video again to see what happened before the police intervened, but from what I remember, he was asked a couple of times to leave, responded that he was going to get around to his question, and then his mike was cut when he said "blowjob".

?!!: Seriously, what's with that guy in your avatar? Did someone beat up his face and make it all swollen, but he didn't have real bandages so he used duct tape?

Jordan: Do you really think people should be tased for being obnoxious, or are you just saying that to be cute? And if you recall, Kerry did answer his questions, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[civilian_number_two]

Looks like he was escorted out for being obnoxious, and tased for resisting the escort. Maybe the police were angry and they overreatced, but they get so little respect and everyone is constantly watching for them to make mistakes. It's actually very hard to subdue a person without hurting him, especially if he's basically begging you to hurt him so he can blab about it on his blog. Tasering is actually pretty light as far as subdual methods go.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 27 September 2007 - 08:50 PM