[J m HofMarN]

Well then, I've said it. I've decided to grow up and stop believing in silly things. The rest of you should as well. Believing in the specter of some scary and vaguely dark skinned turbaned threat is only going to make it more real. The more you believe in terrorism the worse it will get, because when you believe in terrorism you become more likely to vote for the very people who provoke attacks on the part of the lower classes of the world, you become more likely to justify bombing or torture and so forth. You're perpetuating their system by simply acknowledging it.

No more should people suspect terrorism for every little delay or mistep or accident. It shouldnt even enter the back of your mind. If a building blows up it's some people that wanted to blow up a building, or it's a gas leak. There is no such thing as terrorism, and there should be no such thing as a war on terrorism. You have to break through the whole debate of it to come to the single conclusion that the fear of terrorism IS the only terrorism, is the threat that sends people to the polls, is the threat that sends people to the recruiters. We need to open up our own reality, one where out government does not make it necessary for people to blow themselves up to gain their freedom, or for people to go rape women and burn down villages in order to stop said people from blowing themselves up. Consciousness expansion and transcendence of the bullshit.

You might call it putting your head in the sand. Bullshit! Look, there wasn't any terrorism in Iraq til the US started it. Lebanon was pretty quiet til Israel invaded them over a POW, not a terrorist attack. And Afghanistan is now a font of violence as well. Before this there were some poeple living in Afghanistan who might have been criminals, but look at what created them-- the spector of communism, the fear of some other shady idealogy. Fear begets terror, and now rather than the faceless enemy that was before, we're going up agains the end product of our scheming. It's a vicious cycle. When you declared war on a communist country it didn't cause more countries to become communist, at least not to this extent.

But the myth of terrorism and the action taken because of it causes more people, more hearts, to shift towards violence, and in so doing justifies the warror on alleged terrorism and continues to prop up those who perpetuate the myth. It's all bullshit. To believe that terrorism exists is to become part of the terrorist etiphus of the US government. It's not enough to deny the war effort, to deny torture, to avoid serving a material part in this horror that has become our reality. We have to free our minds from it as well, something that can be done purely on the individual level, tuning out from the mass reality of fear and consumption.

And then tearing it all down.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 05 October 2006 - 03:41 AM

[Grinov]

Well then, I've said it. I've decided to grow up and stop believing in silly things. The rest of you should as well. Believing in the specter of some scary and vaguely dark skinned turbaned threat is only going to make it more real. The more you believe in terrorism the worse it will get, because when you believe in terrorism you become more likely to vote for the very people who provoke attacks on the part of the lower classes of the world, you become more likely to justify bombing or torture and so forth. You're perpetuating their system by simply acknowledging it.

No more should people suspect terrorism for every little delay or mistep or accident. It shouldnt even enter the back of your mind. If a building blows up it's some people that wanted to blow up a building, or it's a gas leak. There is no such thing as terrorism, and there should be no such thing as a war on terrorism. You have to break through the whole debate of it to come to the single conclusion that the fear of terrorism IS the only terrorism, is the threat that sends people to the polls, is the threat that sends people to the recruiters. We need to open up our own reality, one where out government does not make it necessary for people to blow themselves up to gain their freedom, or for people to go rape women and burn down villages in order to stop said people from blowing themselves up. Consciousness expansion and transcendence of the bullshit.

To believe that terrorism exists is to become part of the terrorist etiphus of the US government.

How about you go to Baghdad and explain that to Iraqi civilians who are getting blown apart on a regular basis.

[civilian_number_two]

Well his statement wasn't taht there was no terrorism in Iraq, but that there was no terrorism there until the US invaded, ostensibly to remove terrorism, and a bad dictator, and an Al-Qaeda ally, and weapons of mass destruction, and so on.

I know he's being hyperbolic, but put more plainly the argument is this: there is no international terrorist conspiracy. There never has been. It is therefore not a thing you can wage a war against, and any invasions will only destabilize the regions attacked, thereby creating more disorganized and non-central terrorist activity. The pretence that there is an international terrorist conspiracy is the thing causing the rise (or apparent rise) in terrorism.

Most of the people dying in Iraq are victims of the US army.

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

I know he's being hyperbolic, but put more plainly the argument is this: there is no international terrorist conspiracy. There never has been. It is therefore not a thing you can wage a war against, and any invasions will only destabilize the regions attacked, thereby creating more disorganized and non-central terrorist activity. The pretence that there is an international terrorist conspiracy is the thing causing the rise (or apparent rise) in terrorism.

Well, THAT'S correct, but that's not what he said.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 05 October 2006 - 08:48 AM

[Sailor Abbey]

Thanks J m, for wasting four precious minutes of my life that I will never get back.

[Otal Nimrodi]

Sailor, you probably could have avoided wasting this time by checking the title of the thread and who wrote it. You can't expect it to be a fair and objective look at terrorism if either JM or Jordan makes the thread. See, I'm at school, so I read it because my time, being, as I mentioned, at school, is coming pre-wasted.

[Despondent]

I remember coming to school pre-wasted.

I also recall when the Cole was attacked it was the day after the Gore/Bush debate where GB said the US would stand by Israel. I was able to connect THose dots (before 9/11)

[J m HofMarN]

How about you go to Baghdad and explain that to Iraqi civilians who are getting blown apart on a regular basis.

They wouldnt be getting blown apart if not for the war on terrorism. As I've said, it's a cycle.

Well, THAT'S correct, but that's not what he said.

I said things in a somewhat more spectacular manner, but the basic idea is what Civilian noticed. Even looking as far back as the cold war, the made up threat of communism caused trouble where there was no threat tl the US, such as the McCarthy hearings, Vietnam, and various other international interferences. The myth, purpetrated by the government to enslave the populace with fear, caused the damage.

Thanks J m, for wasting four precious minutes of my life that I will never get back.

For someone who already believes so firmly in terrorism and all that it enables the government to do I don't expect any chance of recovery. But for people who are in the right frame of mind or remain objective this is an alternative point of view that I think puts things in a really interesting perspective. It's a mental excersise more than a suggestion of how reality is. Imagine that terrorism is a myth for a moment, a self perpetuating myth, and you can see things in a completely different Orwellian light.

You can't expect it to be a fair and objective look at terrorism if either JM or Jordan makes the thread. See, I'm at school, so I read it because my time, being, as I mentioned, at school, is coming pre-wasted.

Why how dare you! In my last article about how George Bush should be executed for crimes against humanity I tried my best to remain fair and offer a choice between hanging and firing squad. See? Fair and objective!

Also, pre wasted school time rocks out. I think the only way to use it wisely is to do something with the time other than what you're told. That's why everyone in my shop class went home with a full knowledge of the skill of bongsmithing.

Despondent - Usually I was messed up from the festivities of the night before, I never purposely wasted a buzz at school. I know one guy who dropped acid during school, that was pretty interesting to watch him talk to the clock til they sort of dragged him off in an ambulance.

[Despondent]

I never purposely wasted a buzz at school.

Oh, I only did it a couple of times, involving alcohol. I was actually pretty clean-cut before I got to College.

[Slade]

I've never been afraid that I'll get blown up by a bunch of very angry fundamentalist Muslims, nor do I ever attribute everything to terrorism. The worst part is that what's happened is just what those initial acts were trying to accomplish. We have a bunch of duped, scared people, worried that every time something goes wrong, it's Al-Quaeda's fault. They probably watch Western news once in a while and laugh at us when they're not busy being irate that the US has invaded their countries under false pretenses and are doing a terrible job at accomplishing anything but having a whole lot of people on both sides get killed.

[Jordan]

Hasn't Al Qeada bombed embassy buildings, ships and offices in the past?

Are those isolated instances? What about buses blowing up all the time in Israel?

While I agree that there is no big international organization, there definately is an organization. They make videos and dress up like ninjas.

Ok, attacking Iraq was the wrong move, however I wouldn't all of a sudden denounce terror groups in these regions. Ya you won, the war was a waste of time. But there is not point of going over board and saying these groups never existed, cause they do. And they exist because of Israel. That's my opinion, which is probably the correct one.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 05 October 2006 - 05:04 PM

[barend]

let's ignore muggers to.

[J m HofMarN]

Jordan- You're pretty much spot on about what's causing Islamic anger, but it's also the governments there that the US endorses and a few other things. The best recruitment for terror though is the war on terror. Nothing makes a guy pick up a gun faster than another guy with a gun.

let's ignore muggers to.

Improper analogy. Muggers do what they do for profit. They don't blow themselves up to steal someone's wallet. Also when the police go after muggers they go after individual people from all different walks of life, and they go after them as individuals.

If we had a war on muggerism though, the cops would be beating the shit out of anyone from the inner city on the streets after dusk. And then a lot of people in urban areas would get angry and start beating the shit out of the cops in return, IE; mugging them.

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

While I couldn't agree more that a "war on terrorism" is one of the biggest and most laughable load of logical bullshit one could think of and the tendency to use the supposed threat of "terrorism" to rule through fear is despicable, the overall theme of this "terrorism doesn't exist" thread just irks me. It's not intellectually sound at all. Terrorism, "good and bad," obviously exists, and always will in some fashion. I definitely agree that it's been inflated to a ridiculous level of super villain-y nonsense by people that want to scare others into submission, but it's not like it doesn't exist. That's just silly.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 05 October 2006 - 09:45 PM

[Despondent]

I can understand that. There were some really religious people I used to know, who didn't believe in television. What do you mean you don't believe? It EXISTS!