[barend]

... To put Barend's post in friendlier terms,

believe me, i already did...

and don't tell me about buddah, i'm the biggest monkey fan there is!

To give some more information on that -

2 billion christians
1,2 billion muslims
830 million hindus
365 million buddhists
15 million jews

There, make your own pie-chart.

you forgot the 321 sad pathetic dateless virgins who claim 'jedi'

P.S. I just found this chart.

In light of this evidence, I would like to propose a world alliance against the American Government.

in light of that evidence, i think oceanic girls need to put out more.

This is why I ususally stay away from this stuff, we can all get along fine when debating everything else, but when it comes to religion and politics it's always, I'm right, you're wrong, fuck you, have a nice day.

hey, as long as it stays here and doesn't leak out into other threads it can get as ugly as it wants (within forum rule guidlines of course)...

take storm and i, we near litterally hurl our fecies at each other like a pair of crazy caged angry monkeys in the star wars thread (jariten too) but outside of that arena is all cool...

this IS a debate forum, you don't have to agree with anyone here... that's really the whole point.

[Gobbler]

*cough*

Arent you forgetting something?

What about Taoists? They are the bulk of the Chinese population.

Even less than the jews, I think around 8 million or so.

[Dr Lecter]

*cough*

Arent you forgetting something?

What about Taoists? They are the bulk of the Chinese population.

That's crap, most of the chinese are non-religious, around 60%, but I guess just like the American electrol system, that percentage of people can be ignored.

Also, taoism and confucianism are difficult to give numbers for because they are not organised religions.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 02 June 2006 - 08:28 AM

[Sailor Abbey]

You all are ranting about how wrong Catholics are for saying this, but the truth is that all religions do it! Everyone thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong! The Baptists do it, the Anglocans do it! The Islamics do it! I don't see anyone here getting on their case.

No, that’s part of my point. Not all religions go around raving about their religion being the only valid belief system. Did you read my posts?

I’m going to use myself as an example here. I believe that all religions, so long as they respect the earth and its inhabitants, are valid. I believe that there is NO ONE WAY to worship the divine.

You should also know that I am extremely religious - fanatical even. But that doesn’t mean I go around telling everybody else they are wrong and they are going to some kind of eternal damnation and whatnot. I am an Irish Druid, in case anybody is wondering. The way we worship our gods - if we even choose to, should be personal and honest. I don’t think people should have to be taught how to do it, I think it should come natural, but I don’t hate somebody just because they want to follow somebody else’s rules.

3. Abby, I know that I am never going to change your mind on how you feel about Catholics, and honey you aren't ever going to change mine.

Sweetums, I don’t have a problem with Catholics, I have a problem with the self-righteous patriarchal institution.

What I'd like to know is since you come from a family of Chatholics what made you chose to break away and start having the beliefs that you do?

My love for nature, my ability to commune with spirits (which the Catholic Church frowns upon) and my strong desire to honor my ancestors and the gods of my ancestors. It wasn’t really anything the Church did wrong. I’m not jaded or anything. As I grew older, I started asking questions - questions none of the priests or theologians could answer without eventually coming to the same ridiculous conclusion. “Well, you just have to have faith.”

If “faith” is what its called when you deny logic in the face of all the evidence, then I guess I’ll pass. Catholicism would have you believe that the world is black and white - good and evil. But the world I see is multicolored, beautiful and complex.

I know you said that you were sick of people telling you to feel guilty about human nature and whatever, but guilt is a part of human nature.

Guilt for having premarital sex or sex with someone of the same sex is not human nature. Its something that is taught. And it causes people problems. Theres lots of shrinks out there making bank because mommy and daddy told em they were going to hell for pulling on their weewee.

That point being, I'd really like to know more about WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THAT YOU BELIEVE!?!

Well, that could take a long time. I believe a lot of things. As I stated before, I am an Irish Druid. I am Pagan, I worship the Land, Sea and Sky and the Spirits therein. I worship my ancestors and the gods of my ancestors. I believe that the purpose of existence is to attain the sciences, that is, to learn all that there is to know, to experience all that there is to experience, through multiple incarnations, until spiritual perfection is at last obtained, at which point the spirit becomes one with the Source. That’s me in a nutshell I spose.

a Buddist would never say that they hate Catholics or Catholic teachings.

I don’t hate Catholics. And the only Catholic teaching you could actually say I hate is the one in which they say Catholicism is the only valid religion in the entire universe.

I don’t agree with a lot of the other teachings, but that doesn’t mean I hate them. I just disagree. I think they cause people a lot of emotional problems.

If it's something like that that you believe in then fine by me, but then again I don't think that those people would go around saying that they hate other peoples beiefs either.

Ok, again, I don’t hate anybody’s beliefs. I think believing that there is only one possible correct way to worship divinity is absurd. And I think some beliefs, such as masturbation being a sin, are unhealthy.

"if you didn't know any better you'd think that my screen name was your grandmothers, well I think that maybe my name should be yours because Paul was the one of the greatest persecutors of the early Christians until God knocked him off his high horse and he began to believe and became a great doctor of the Church.

You do realize that could just be a bunch of BS right? Im not saying it is - I'm just saying it could be.

Now, they way I see it is that you might not be a great persecutor like Paul, but you do very much seem to me to be like a kind of prodigal daughter who is all alone and lost in the world and it's only a matter of time before you too, and others like you have a St. Paul like revelation which brings you back into the fold.

Sweetheart, I know exactly where I am. I'm not a sheep, I don’t belong in "the fold." I am a daughter of An Mhór Ríoghain and An Dagda. I don’t want to be a doctor of your church.

Edit: For some reason, that last quote and paragraph were in there twice. I fixed that. Random benevolence, away!
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

This post has been edited by Slade: 03 June 2006 - 10:52 PM

[Jordan]

Ancient Celtic religions are even more violent and bloody than any modern day one.

People seem to think that our European Barbarian forefathers ran around naked singing hyms and being nice to trees and dirt. But really they were a warrior people who fought amongst one another in bloody conflict. They had human sacrfices and took in slaves and whatnot from conquest.

I don't think you'd want to commune with your ancestors. They'd probably rape you or sell you in some trade event.

All that Enya post modern celtic appeal is not even close to what our ancenstors did in reality. They were materialistic, endorsed blood lust and warrior mentality, and above all fought all the time with their neighbours, even though they shared so much in common. These people would get high on herbal elixers and run into battle naked. It's not pretty stuff here.

Modern day paganism is more new age hippy wicka, than anything else. I lived in a community at one point that had more wicka followers than christians. We lived right next to their meeting place.

One of them sued my dad for 5000 dollars because he topped off a tree on her property. The caretaker of the druid hippy's property said he could top the tree off, so he did.

She came back to her house a month later and saw the tree. She claimed emotional distress. The caretaker said he told her about my dads plans and that she approved. The witch said she would never ever endorse killing a tree so couldn't have possibly agreed. (even though she accepted a cheque made of paper)

She said if the tree had to come down, then she would have performed a ritual for it's passing.

Inside her house she had giant crystals (which gave her power) and tarrot cards. Indian spirit art was all over the place. The place creeped me out. They use to beat fucking drums late at night, outside, and sing and dance.

You've never met more confused and passive aggressive people until you've seen a pagan/witch/new age/hippie/mamby pamby/druid/whatever

[darth_paul]

Ancient Celtic religions are even more violent and bloody than any modern day one.

People seem to think that our European Barbarian forefathers ran around naked singing hyms and being nice to trees and dirt. But really they were a warrior people who fought amongst one another in bloody conflict. They had human sacrfices and took in slaves and whatnot from conquest.

I don't think you'd want to commune with your ancestors. They'd probably rape you or sell you in some trade event.

All that Enya post modern celtic appeal is not even close to what our ancenstors did in reality. They were materialistic, endorsed blood lust and warrior mentality, and above all fought all the time with their neighbours, even though they shared so much in common. These people would get high on herbal elixers and run into battle naked. It's not pretty stuff here.

Modern day paganism is more new age hippy wicka, than anything else. I lived in a community at one point that had more wicka followers than christians. We lived right next to their meeting place.

One of them sued my dad for 5000 dollars because he topped off a tree on her property. The caretaker of the druid hippy's property said he could top the tree off, so he did.

She came back to her house a month later and saw the tree. She claimed emotional distress. The caretaker said he told her about my dads plans and that she approved. The witch said she would never ever endorse killing a tree so couldn't have possibly agreed. (even though she accepted a cheque made of paper)

She said if the tree had to come down, then she would have performed a ritual for it's passing.

Inside her house she had giant crystals (which gave her power) and tarrot cards. Indian spirit art was all over the place. The place creeped me out. They use to beat fucking drums late at night, outside, and sing and dance.

You've never met more confused and passive aggressive people until you've seen a pagan/witch/new age/hippie/mamby pamby/druid/whatever

Amen brother!

[Sailor Abbey]

People seem to think that our European Barbarian forefathers ran around naked singing hyms and being nice to trees and dirt. But really they were a warrior people who fought amongst one another in bloody conflict. They had human sacrfices and took in slaves and whatnot from conquest.

I don't think you'd want to commune with your ancestors. They'd probably rape you or sell you in some trade event.

What sources exactly do you have to back up these wild claims. Do you have any idea what your talking about? Perhaps you should educate yourself on the history and culture of the ancient Celts before you go making crude generalizations.

All that Enya post modern celtic appeal is not even close to what our ancenstors did in reality. They were materialistic, endorsed blood lust and warrior mentality, and above all fought all the time with their neighbours, even though they shared so much in common.

Again, your sources please.

You've never met more confused and passive aggressive people until you've seen a pagan/witch/new age/hippie/mamby pamby/druid/whatever

Hey Jordan, is there a group of people you don’t have a stereotype or prejudice for.



The Celts went to war just like everybody else in history. And there were bloodthirsty psychos back then just like there are now. But that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of my ancestors went around raping and pillaging. My ancestors were wives, daughters, grandfathers, grandmothers, poets, farmers, hunters, merchants, smiths, ect ect ect. Sure some of them were probably murderers and rapists but that doesn’t mean they were all savage lunatics.

This post has been edited by Sailor Abbey: 04 June 2006 - 02:28 PM

[Cobnat]

Even less than the jews, I think around 8 million or so.

That's crap, most of the chinese are non-religious, around 60%, but I guess just like the American electrol system, that percentage of people can be ignored.

Also, taoism and confucianism are difficult to give numbers for because they are not organised religions.

Taoism is the reason for Chinese culture, its teachings have been passed down to current Chinese traditions, its wisdom lives in most Chinese... nay... most Asians today... it might not be an organized Religon but its effect on the East is hard to ignore.

[barend]

Also, taoism and confucianism are difficult to give numbers for because they are not organised religions.

in fact they're phillosphies, and not religions at all.

[Cobnat]

in fact they're phillosphies, and not religions at all.

One can say that Christians are infact philosephers too.

(edit)

And what about the Taoist priests and monks? How is it not a religon if it has priests and monks?

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 04 June 2006 - 07:45 PM

[barend]

Lao Tsu started taoism as a psychology and philosophy hybrid...
it eventually got adopted as a religion, but technically... it's not.
it's what 'the force' is based on.

[Otal Nimrodi]

Hey Jordan, is there a group of people you don’t have a stereotype or prejudice for.

First of all, I want to say... BURN!

Okay, that said, I'll get to the point. Well, right now, I'm thinking that I agree with Abbey. They were all people. Odds are, some of them were REAL jerks, but most of them were, or wanted to be, peaceful. But also, I have to say that Jordan has a point, the religion that Abbey is a part of is probably not the same as the ancient Celts, but frankly, they ARE thousands of years apart. Catholicism isn't static either. Nothing can remain the way it is for thousands of years, or even hundreds of years. Look at America in the year 1776. And look at America in the year 1976. That's just two hundred years. Hell, 1976-2006 is just thirty years, and things have changed pretty big between then and now too. So if you expect a religion to stay the same for thousands of years, well, you're probably a bit off. Take Christianity. Think that people in 1006 and 2006 had the same religion, or, hell, even the same BIBLE that modern Christians do? You know all those monks that were copying the bible down before it was mass-produced? They were doing more than just copying you know. The words that you quote out of your bible you keep on the bedstand may have been added at ANY point in the long history of the book, and BOY is that a long history.

Edit: In the amount of time it took me to write that, we seem to have gone off to Confucianism and Taoism. Yeah, Barend's right. Can't say more, too thought out.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 04 June 2006 - 08:13 PM

[Cobnat]

Lao Tsu started taoism as a psychology and philosophy hybrid...
it eventually got adopted as a religion, but technically... it's not.
it's what 'the force' is based on.

Lets concentrate on the now then, it really doesnt matter what it was, what it is now is what is important and what people believe...

(side-note)

Really? The Force?

[Gobbler]

The Force is generally something like Qi, and Qi's something like a spiritual life force that surrounds us. If you believe in that, and if you believe that you can make it have an influence on your life through believing in it, then it can be considered a religion. You don't need a god to be religious, if that's what Mr. Barend was trying to say.

[Cobnat]

The Force is generally something like Qi, and Qi's something like a spiritual life force that surrounds us. If you believe in that, and if you believe that you can make it have an influence on your life through believing in it, then it can be considered a religion. You don't need a god to be religious, if that's what Mr. Barend was trying to say.

So then we can agree that Taoism is a religion?