[barend]

i often considered becoming a right wing extreemist budhist.

the way i'd do it though would be to yell stuff i heard at the end of monkey episode and just just try and look really blissfully enlightened and relaxed while saying it.

[darth_paul]

Alright, I'm back, but not that it matters because everyone except Cyzyk is going to just rip apart whatever I state here. By the way, Cyzyk if you get to read this I appauld you for going with me and sticking up for the faith, because that's really what it's all about is faith. It's not about the "Spanish Inquisition" or "Crusades" or atrocitites that the Catholic Church committed over 500 years ago so don't give me that bullshit! Plus, this whole thing got started becaue Miss Abbey decided to say:

I guess I could have stuck this on the God thread, but then Cyzyk might not have been able to find it, and we cant have that now can we.
My family, most of whom are devout Catholics are constantly raving about the poor Catholic Church, and oh how persecuted it is, and Jesus said this would happen, but that no matter what, the Church would never be destroyed because its His One True Church and bla bla bla ect ect.
I hear this tripe EVERY TIME somebody talks about the Da Vinci Code, and I’m so bloody sick of it. My response, much to the dismay of my family is something like:

QUOTE(Sailor Abbey @ May 20 2006, 09:19 AM)

Oh the poor Catholic Church. Always the victim.
I know, stop making people feel guilty for doing things that nature intended them to do and don't go around saying your belief system is the only valid one, and maybe everybody will stop hating you. How bout that, Catholic Church?

Well, first of all by placing it on a different thread other than the God thread to keep out the outspoken resdent Catholic was a dirty bit o' persecution right there. Why try to exclude someone when you just know they are going to find your post anyway? Heck He was the THIRD POST!!! Way to go there with hiding it. (Proof postive that God will cast forth the shadows to let the TRUTH be known). Second of all, it's not just the Catholics who are deriding the Da Vinci Code, but most all CHRISTIANS in general! The book, while indeed fiction is an outright PERSECUTION against all of CHRISTIANITY! The Baptists and other Protestant denominations have denounced the book and the film, but when the Catholics join in, Oh my God somebody shut up the crazy Catholics! Yeah, that's not persecution. Whatever. Now for some other points and questions:

1. I am a born and bred Roman Catholic (and a Republican Conservative), which is already two strikes against me as far as most of you are concerend, but so what, I don't care, screw you. Anyway, as far as that making me "Brainwashed" and "Closed Minded" I say this to you all, I think that none of you are any better. I believe what I believe (religiously) for the same reason that any other Christian (not Catholic) Christian believes what they believe and that is that I have fully accepted Jesus into my mind, heart, body and soul as my savior and choose to live my life the best that I can to obtain his grace to guide me in my life and get to Heaven. So what if I don't think that other Christain denominations or even other religions are worshiping correctly. You all are ranting about how wrong Catholics are for saying this, but the truth is that all religions do it! Everyone thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong! The Baptists do it, the Anglocans do it! The Islamics do it! I don't see anyone here getting on their case.

2. This goes out to those of you who have stated that Catholics are EVIL or in some way BAD PEOPLE for what they say, do and believe. Just SHUT UP, As with my above statement, it's fine when everyone else does the same thing, but when Catholics say it then it must be WRONG? WTF!?!

3. Abby, I know that I am never going to change your mind on how you feel about Catholics, and honey you aren't ever going to change mine. I am not close minded at all. Much like Cyzyk, I have learned about other religions and I do respect other people and their beliefs. In fact just so you know, I don't go around telling others that they are worshiping the wrong way, and neither do most Catholics that I know. You are trying to cite history books and what not to state your case, but you and any one else who share your views are not going to win with Cyz and me, nor any other Catholic (or other hardcore Christian for that matter). You can continue on and on about how you don't believe the bible and dogma and whatever, and that's your choice. What I'd like to know is since you come from a family of Chatholics what made you chose to break away and start having the beliefs that you do? I know you said that you were sick of people telling you to feel guilty about human nature and whatever, but guilt is a part of human nature. It's a part of MORALITY! I've met lots of people like you who say that they live by their own MORAL CODE and yet don't really seem to have that many morals to begin with. They think just because they don't kill people then they are righteous upstanding citizens. Well, there's more to it than that. Anyway, you can just tear me apart on this and I give my rebuttal on it later since I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here and getting off my point. That point being, I'd really like to know more about WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THAT YOU BELIEVE!?! You say that you believe in REINCARNATION and some kind of OTHERWORLD or OTHERWORLDS, yet you don't seem to be Buddist to me since a Buddist would never say that they hate Catholics or Catholic teachings. They would just say, "eh, that's fine with me - you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want and together we will work for spiritual harmony." The only other faith that I can think of off the top of my head right now that would believe in such things is something along the lines of a Native American religion like that of the Hopi people out in Colorado. Their entire way of life revolved around their homes being like individual churches and they conducted regular ceremonies around a circle in the ground meant to symbolize the past world they came from and they had ladders going through their roofs to symbolize their way into the next world. If it's something like that that you believe in then fine by me, but then again I don't think that those people would go around saying that they hate other peoples beiefs either. Oh and one last thing - as far as you commenting that, "if you didn't know any better you'd think that my screen name was your grandmothers, well I think that maybe my name should be yours because Paul was the one of the greatest persecutors of the early Christians until God knocked him off his high horse and he began to believe and became a great doctor of the Church. Now, they way I see it is that you might not be a great persecutor like Paul, but you do very much seem to me to be like a kind of prodigal daughter who is all alone and lost in the world and it's only a matter of time before you too, and others like you have a St. Paul like revelation which brings you back into the fold. That is all from me for now, I await your rebuttal.

[Cobnat]

1. I am a born and bred Roman Catholic (and a Republican Conservative), which is already two strikes against me as far as most of you are concerend, but so what, I don't care, screw you.

2 strikes? Look, chump, its all fine and good that your a... (shudders) Roman Catholic and a Republican Conservative but dont be a retard and say "I DONT CARE" afterwards, becouse you obviously care enough to make a long ass post.

On a side note, everyone should know my opinion about Republicans and Democrats and all the rest of that bullshit, but as for Roman Catholisism, step away from the darkside, you probebly dont know but the Roman Catholic Church has commited greater and more recent atrocities then the Crusades and Inquisition.

i often considered becoming a right wing extreemist budhist.

Or to become an Angry Budhist... hm... thats a good idea...

[barend]

a bit o persocution right there?

oh that's it... i'm shoveling the catholics onto the "whiniest religions" pile with the jews...

the whole world is not out to get you guy's... the only enemies you have these days are the people who got so sick of hearing you complain that they had no choice but to dig up your sordid past and throw it in your face.

so persocution focussed... it's depressing... catholic schools two main exports are strict "we're number one" persocution-complexed freaks and Goth kids.

[Spoon Poetic]

Sailor Abbey: "I guess I could have stuck this on the God thread, but then Cyzyk might not have been able to find it, and we cant have that now can we."

Darth Paul: "Well, first of all by placing it on a different thread other than the God thread to keep out the outspoken resdent Catholic was a dirty bit o' persecution right there. Why try to exclude someone when you just know they are going to find your post anyway?"

(I'm too lazy to do the actual quote-ness when I'm gonna do multiple quotes.)

I quoted those two things because I needed to point out that Abbey said she would have put it on the God thread except that Cyzyk might NOT have been able to find it. Because he might not have thought to look on an old thread, especially one with billions of pages and topic changes, etc. She WANTED Cyzyck to find it. so, just pointing out you misread, so don't accuse Abbey of excluded anyone.

Secondly, you must not have done as much research on other religions as you'd like us to believe, as it's failry easy to conclude just from what Abbey has said in this one thread that she's some form of pagan, such as a Wiccan, Druid, etc etc.

Thirdly, please refrain from making blanket generalisations such as "Anyway, as far as that making me "Brainwashed" and "Closed Minded" I say this to you all, I think that none of you are any better." It's not fair for you to accuse the entire population of the forums of this, especially when plenty members aren't even participating in the debate, and some have a track record of sticking up for all beliefs no m atter what their personal beliefs, such as Slade.

Lastly, I'm not in the mood to jump in the argument except to say this - I do agree with your statement about how most religions believe that their way is the only true way to believe, but yet lately people only seem to ever bash the Christians about it. It's uncool and you'll get hated forever if you say anything like "Muslims don't believe the right thing," but everyone loves someone to say the Christians are wrong...

[barend]

the muslims are wrong too.


there happy?


seriously, fuck all religions that make you fell like your better than others. if you believe that, screw you, you don't know god, allah, buddah, chuck norris, kali, etc.

all religions teach peace and harmony and love at the end of it all...

if you missed that, you're going to whatever hell you beleive in my friends...

[civilian_number_two]

I'm sad. I didn't say Catholics were evil, and I was ignored. Come on, guys; I love ranting about religion!

[Slade]

... To put Barend's post in friendlier terms, behind much religious dogma lie basic principles for positive social interaction between people, as well as advice for living a more productive and healthier life. No religion has any authority to say "We are absolutely right and everybody else is wrong." That's an impossible to support statement. The Catholic Church is being mentioned here in response to apparent accusations of it complaining about some silly popular fiction book which is now a motion picture persecuting it. Everybody has every right to say "This belief is rather silly, and this is why I think that." Insulting a person for having those beliefs is not tolerated. Nobody ever seems to say "Muslims are wrong." (Except Barend just now.) It's always "Muslims are crazy suicidal maniacs." I don't often see anyone pointing out any sort of legitimate, practiced beliefs that are disputed. It's always "The Koran tells everyone to go murder the unbelievers." and stuff like that.

Abbey is indeed some sort of Pagan, though which sort, I have no idea.

Barend: Shame on you. Buddha himself didn't want people worshiping him. "You don't know Buddha" is a pretty wild statement to make, too.

'Tis a messy business, and one I'm not fond of getting into. Just play nice, people.

Edit: Civ killed my continuity with his post, so I had to fix it.

This post has been edited by Slade: 01 June 2006 - 12:04 AM

[Dr Lecter]

Whoever made this chart obviously never heard of Islam, there millions of mulisms, wouldn't be suprized if they were almost equal to the christians.

Oh yeah, about republicans and democrats, they are both just about the same, there is so little different in their policies that it doesn't make much difference. Middle America has no idea what political ideology really means. Here in Britian we have had everything from a conservative state, neo-conservative state, right down to a socialist state. It's been many years since the conservatives last took power in Britain, almost 10 years, and we are still trying to clear up the mess they made! They totally and utterly fucked up almost every part of our economic, social and political systems. Of course, our government right now is no socialist government, but still they are more left.

Looking at political alignment, there is no party in Britain as far right as even the democrats, just as there is no political party in America represent the workers. I'm not saying communism, but Jesus, learn about really political ideology. over 60% of Americans don't vote, so you know, that if they all voted for a third party, that party would get more votes than the republicans and the democrats combined. Think about that, that over 60% of all Americans, no represented in the political system. It's time you guys realised there is a better way.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 01 June 2006 - 05:42 AM

[Gobbler]

To give some more information on that -

2 billion christians
1,2 billion muslims
830 million hindus
365 million buddhists
15 million jews

There, make your own pie-chart.

[Dr Lecter]

I wasn't far off then, I suppose if I look on wiki there might already be a chart.

P.S. I just found this chart.

In light of this evidence, I would like to propose a world alliance against the American Government.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 01 June 2006 - 05:47 AM

[darth_paul]

No One Expects Darth Paul’s Inqusition! Look, seriously though, I may have gotten a bit harsh in my last post, and yes I do care enough to make a long ass post. (That and the fact that I usually don't have a lot of free time to get on here so I tend to sometimes make long posts to get the most of what I have to say in the least amount of time until I can come back which sometimes is over a week or more - anyway I digress.) Secondly, I appologize for generalizing, and I am glad that at least some of you are agreeing with some of my points now and I am happy to hear that there are people on here that have a track record of sticking up for all beliefs no m atter what their personal beliefs, such as Slade, it's just that this thread seemed to me to be getting a little one-sided and I just wanted to redirect it. I'm actually surpirsed that with 1000+ members on this site that there aren't more Catholics on this thread discussing this other than Cyz and I. Plus, if I misread Abby's statement and made an overheated and incorrect accusation then I appologize for that too. This is why I ususally stay away from this stuff, we can all get along fine when debating everything else, but when it comes to religion and politics it's always, I'm right, you're wrong, fuck you, have a nice day.
^ ^. I'm moving on now, I'll check back again later to see if there's anything else I feel I need to respond to, but until then I'm going to go to another part of the site that's safer. -Peace

[Slade]

Leave it to Dr. Lecter to try to turn even a discussion on persecution of Catholicism into riffing on the American government. The reason that people don't vote is because there is no party to represent them, and their votes are alienated through politics and politicians, and that electoral college, which kinda negates everything anyway.

But this is not the thread for that discussion. Take it up somewhere else, my good Doctor.

And to be fair, I don't stick up for Scientology or Fascism, because the former is insane and very obviously a scam, and the latter contains unethical ideals that don't belong in at least the last five centuries.

Back to the discussion at hand, 'tis good to see new faces here, and I'm sorry to see you go, Darth Paul, but I understand your situation. Please carry on with the whole non-political discussion or whatnot.

[Spoon Poetic]

Fascism's not a religion...?

[Cobnat]

To give some more information on that -

2 billion christians
1,2 billion muslims
830 million hindus
365 million buddhists
15 million jews

There, make your own pie-chart.

*cough*

Arent you forgetting something?

What about Taoists? They are the bulk of the Chinese population.

(edit)

Fascism's not a religion...?

Fasism is a Systematic and Political Belief... Religon is... well... er... nevermind...

(edit #2)

It's time you guys realised there is a better way.

The United States and the bulk of its civilians havent inherited the Metric system, what makes you think they are smart enough to create a multi-party political system?

This post has been edited by Cobnat: 02 June 2006 - 12:47 AM