[georgelucas4greedo]

I remember the topic before about what if we never knew of SW. I was thinking what if we had our minds erased and watched the OT all over again. I watched the originals when I was very young so I dont remember my reactions to all the twists, i.e. yoda being a green midget, Jabba's fat slugliness, Vader being Luke's father. Plus, I was so immersed in the culture of star wars.

I wish I could watch it all over again without knowing this stuff. I envy all of you who remember what it felt like to see it with a mature, fresh mind. What do you guys think?

[jariten]

Nah. If I watched it again now i'm afraid i'd think it was either crap or average.

So many of SW's flaws are hidden under nostalga, toys and pretending to be Boba Fett in primary school.

I found this out the hard way with the PT (as did a few others).

[Sailor Abbey]

I would also have to forget all the other movies I’ve ever seen before I watched the OT “for the first time.” While the story still would have rocked, having been inundated with CGI and crazy SFX for the past 10 years might have made the puppets a little uncomfortable to watch. Its unfortunate too. It’d probably be one of those things where you secretly loved it, but you couldn’t admit it to any of your pals.

I remember a big space in between watching the OT when I was a bit younger. Probably from about 1986-1993. Since I was extra young the last time I had seen it, I only vaguely remembered stuff from it. I remembered somebody with a light sword cutting off some warewolfs arm in a bar. I remember some space ships, and I remember Darth Vader and that he was somebody’s father. I also remembered some little furry creatures but I couldn’t figure out how exactly they fit into the story.

Then when my step dad finally “aquired the OT” I got to see it again, like it was the first time ever. It was WAY awesomer than I remembered it being. That’s about the same time my brothers and I started watching it at least 2-3 times per week. Seemed like every time I watched it, and the older I subsequently got, the more stuff that clicked.

I gotta say, aside from the stupid SE crap GL stuck in there, its still as awesome an experience as it was back in the day. Only now I have to trick myself into believing the PT never was before I can watch it. Oh, and I have to fast forward the stupid SE crap.

[civilian_number_two]

What's the question here? Whether STAR WARS, EMPIRE, and JEDI wpuld be considered good if seen with mature eyes? I dare say they would.

I for one would not be comparing them with modern special effects showcases, since I never do that sort of thing when watching an old movie. I enjoy the hell out of old films when I see them if they have good stories and acting. I loved THE PARALLAX VIEW when I saw it for the first time about 8 years ago, hokey 70's car chase and all (well, I hated the hoKey 70's car chase). Mark Hammill and Carrie Fisher are occasionally hard to watch, but STAR WARS isn't KRULL or HAWK THE SLAYER. It's a good movie, and I'm sure I'd have liked it if I saw it yesterday for the first time. I'm pretty sure too I'd have liked EMPIRE. JEDI is the only one I think would have come off as an overdone muppet show.

I was never into the toys or pretending to be Boba Fett. The movies for me were always just stories. I did read the Marvel comics that came after, but then I already read comics.

[Cyzyk]

The three Star Wars movies (the good three, obviously; the other three aren't movies so much as fan money sponges) really are good films. No, they aren't Citizen Kane. But would you rather watch that again or Star Wars (or A New Hope, as it has come to be known by the new generation)?

A movie is supposed to be entertaining. The Star Wars movies are that; they have rewatchability as well. Do they have amazing special effects? Not by modern standards, but I've spent enough time in my life playing with computers to see SFX as lots of work rather than pretty. Do they have great acting? No, although one must say that the Jedi as we know it is primarily the work of Alec Guinness, and Harrison Ford made the films much better. The dialogue has its moments, but isn't so good at other times. There are curiously large plot holes. (These blast points too accurate for Sand People? Even though they carry rifles and seem to know how to use them, while squads of stormtroopers armed with carbines fail to hit any of the intrepidly exposed heroes? And why can Leia shoot more accurately than the Empire's best?)

They have a certain undeniable entertainment value, and that's all I ask for from a film. Mark Hamil isn't the greatest actor to ever grace the screen, but at worst he simply lacks presence, unlike that abominable Hadyn Chris-whatsisface, whose incompetance attracts the eye with painful magnetism.

I don't think you can actually call the original Star Wars movies bad. You may not like them, or call them art, but they have the qualities of at least a decent film, and the box office of something better.

[Cobnat]

I remember the topic before about what if we never knew of SW. I was thinking what if we had our minds erased and watched the OT all over again. I watched the originals when I was very young so I dont remember my reactions to all the twists, i.e. yoda being a green midget, Jabba's fat slugliness, Vader being Luke's father. Plus, I was so immersed in the culture of star wars.

I wish I could watch it all over again without knowing this stuff. I envy all of you who remember what it felt like to see it with a mature, fresh mind. What do you guys think?

If this was to happen to me, would my memories of other things still be in my head?

[Wanderer]

Nah. If I watched it again now i'm afraid i'd think it was either crap or average.

So many of SW's flaws are hidden under nostalga, toys and pretending to be Boba Fett in primary school.

I found this out the hard way with the PT (as did a few others).

I thought you liked the prequels jariten. did you finally give up defending them?

[barend]

no he's saying, by watching the PT he's realizes that SW is all just for kids and crap...

but that's lame. i know people who were adults (and not nerds) who fell in love with star wars at the time. I saw the movies at the time, and the adults who took my piers and I all loved it too...

its the consumerists defence. "our love of the mainstream attempt at art is justified by declairing independant art inferior, or equally as bad where we are unable to defend your argument against the souless cash collecting machines of greed." it is there ethos.

Star wars on the other hand is a slightly different kettle of fish as they are made by the same man. but a man who sold out.

SW was far more independant than its prequels or later releases. and we can't even have a fun conversation now without the PT loving agenda forced at us.

i can be totally objective when enjoying music and film, by listening to it erasing or ignoring outer influences. i can watch a movie as if i'm watching it for the first time (obviously not as accuratley as if it were actually the first time or my memory was erased, but close enough.)

it has now, however been a good 6-8 years since i have watched the originals, and seems like a different life to me. it should be interesting to watch them again after so long in september.

i can honestly say if i saw them for the first time i would enjoy them.
because its not about nostalgia.

i often see old "dated" films for the first time in my adult life and love them. Dario Agenta films are a prime example of this, especially because they are horror films and the blood looks like paint, with no translucency to it at all. but they are still the greatest hooror movies ever made, and they were made in the 70s, and i saw all (save creepers [AKA phenomina]) as an adult.

why?

because i'm not one of these consumerist 'latest is greatest' no respect for history, fashion chasing, desposable muther fuckers.

there are good films and there are bad films. Starwars and ESB and even ROTJ are good films. there are mistakes, there are flaws, there are tree trunk rings on some effects, but there is a timlessness to the story (and largly because its LOTR), that is undeniable by anyone who has respect for film making.

people who dis SW in defence of the PT are one step away from the kind of uncultred gimps that say; "ewe, i'm not watching that, it's in black and white"

even George Lucas would have to back me up on that.

[Storm]

A lot of people on this forum seem to have trouble distinguishing things.

Just because somebody doesn't like the OT movies doesn't instantly imply they are defending the PT. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. A lot of people simply do not like Star Wars. It's ALL really, really corny.

And Barend, just admit the OT is all nostalgic value. If as an adult, you could watch ESB and not comment at how absolutely absurd it is that Millenium Falcon eluded the Star Destroyer Avenger by hiding on the back of the ship (not to mention it accomplished this task in three seconds), then you truly have a gift for suspending disbelief.

[barend]

A lot of people on this forum seem to have trouble distinguishing things.

Just because somebody doesn't like the OT movies doesn't instantly imply they are defending the PT. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. A lot of people simply do not like Star Wars. It's ALL really, really corny.

i have friends that don't like starwars. not even slightly... they don't post here at all though. know why? BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE STAR WARS. This is a forum for people who do CAN YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD?!? it's pretty safe to assume that people who don't like SW at all are not factored into this conversation. and therefore distinguishabilty need not be brought into question as you point is invalid.

And Barend, just admit the OT is all nostalgic value.

would that be easier for you than actually reading my post?

[Storm]

ha ha....I like how you conveniently ignored the point about how unrealistic the Falcon hiding on the back of the Avenger is. But that's okay, because Mustafar is unrealistic.....right?

In reply to your comments, however:

1. Even though I do like Star Wars, I can admit all six of the movies are poorly written, directed and highly unrealistic. Besides, I find it entertaining to point out flaws in things.

2. I read your post. Even though you claim the movies don't have nostalgic value for you, I'm calling your bluff.

[barend]

well, i'm pulling out a full house.

conveiniently ignored? you convieniently ignored 80% of my post!

how is it lame that the falcon evades the scanners by parking on the one thing the scanners are not set to sweep?

personally i think that's cool.

unless there was some part in the film that i missed where someone said that it wouldn't work... and either way boba fett knew they were there.

it was really a blind attack and i didn't think it worth mentioning but 'HA HA' all you like, it doesn't make you right.

i wouldn't say they were poorly directed. i mean they're no kubrik, ridley scot, or whoever standard works of art, but at least they tell a story you can care about without wanting to vomit blood at the rediculousness of it.

the PT doesn't make it that far..

as i said in my mostly unread post

i find it easier to ignore problems with the OT the same way i do with new films i like... there are hardly any films that could be truley called flawless (though i struggle with my top few) by any means.

there are expected flaws, and there are vomit blood flaws.

SW:OT has the first. SW:PT has the later.

and mustafar isn't unrealistic. it's impossibilty to appraoch due to use of localised and over understood material to present rediclousness is an absurdidty that makes one want to beat people up for enjoying it.

SW is a good set of flicks... they are popcorn movies with a broad scope, and an abilty to age gracefully... that option has been taken from them... and the newer ones are hideous pock marks on face of a franchise already defiled by ewoks movies and stupid novels.

(no offence timothy zahn, your stuff seemed pretty awsome, save for the hot chocolate)

the OT may have not been an academy award clean-sweeper, but it also didn't require 2 seasons of a cartoon series to fill in gaping plot holes and wasted time.

i'll put it simply enough for you to understand.
OT hot chocolate with simmered milk with 2 teaspoons of sugar
PT hot choclate using hot water and no milk with 10 teaspoons of sweet and low

This post has been edited by barend: 23 May 2006 - 02:35 AM

[Sailor Abbey]

If as an adult, you could watch ESB and not comment at how absolutely absurd it is that Millenium Falcon eluded the Star Destroyer Avenger by hiding on the back of the ship (not to mention it accomplished this task in three seconds), then you truly have a gift for suspending disbelief.

Really? I didnt thought that part was pretty realistic.

[Storm]

I dunno, Mustafar didn't really beat me over the head that much, although I was a little annoyed when the fight moved to within close proximity of the lava. I was perfectly content with Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting on the landing platform and inside the Mustafar base.

As for the Avenger, when the remainder of the fleet met up, somebody had to have noticed the Falcon on the back of the ship (Not to mention all people in the Avenger had to do was look out the window and notice there was a large ship blocking their view of space).

[barend]

i have to agree... as impossible as it was. the mustafar fight was something i could live with while it satayed indoors... out door on the structure, again impossible but not, slap you in the face with a stale hearing absurd... surfing... it just broke me.

i think the comparability worked like this

Mustafar interior = cloud city
Mustafar exterior = space worm belly
Mustafar surf = greedo shooting first, bobba fett at jabbas palace, jabba in the carpark, george lucas jowls glistening with drool, etc. all hitting me at once and making me ill.

the avenger thing... come on... there were no windows on the back, the millenium falcon was the same color, it just didn't occur to them.

there was alot of moving and shaking in the managerial department at the time...
it was hard for anyone to keep up as it was.