[Gobbler]

... and it looks like a defloration-device.

[Sailor Abbey]

yeah... and jedi temple...

look at how it almost oppressivley towers over the city

this place wasn't built on the grain fed hippies in for free vegetarian nosh dropping the odd coin for donation.
school fees from the overprivillaged upper class eilite...

I always figured it was government funding. Galactic tax credits.

[jariten]

Qui Gon went to great lengths to try to kill two birds with one stone and get them off Tatooine while freeing this kid too (who he belived to be the chosen one).

The whole idea behind Qui Gon's character was that he was a rogue Jedi of sorts, doing things his own way and following the Force in whatever manner he sees fit.

Hence, since Anakin is under Qui Gon's juristiction, not the Jedi's, and if Qui Gon says (or doesnt say, even) "I wont train him, since you forbid it, but hes my responsibilty" then thats his burden to bear.

You might say that taking Anakin into a battle was irresonsible, of course it was. But so was taking Jar Jar under his wing, and risking the whole mission to liberate Naboo on an outside chance with Anakin and the podrace because Qui Gon belived the boy was part of the bigger picture and so was willing to take the risk.

I wouldnt have done it, and neither would you probably, but we aren't Qui Gon. Sticking Anakin into such a risky learning curve (which was the whole point of taking him) was irresponsible, but not out of character.

[Helena]

Hence, since Anakin is under Qui Gon's juristiction, not the Jedi's, and if Qui Gon says (or doesnt say, even) "I wont train him, since you forbid it, but hes my responsibilty" then thats his burden to bear.

And how come he's under Qui-Gon's 'jurisdiction' in the first place? What kind of bloody stupid rules do the Jedi have on this anyway? "Hey, guys, I found this cute little blond slave boy on Tatooine - can I keep him?" "Sure, Qui-Gon, you go ahead and do that." Sheesh, and I thought the Republic was supposed to be a relatively civilised place...

In any case, Qui-Gon's being an irresponsible moron does not excuse the rest of the Jedi Council. I repeat: the minute Anakin arrived at the Temple he should have been taken off Qui-Gon's hands. Absolutely NO WAY should he have been allowed to take Anakin anywhere near Naboo. Screw the 'bigger picture'; that is child endangerment, pure and simple.

Hey, I've got it: that explains why the Jedi are in such a bad way by the time of AotC. When Shmi found out what they'd dragged her son into, she immediately sued them for 300,000,000,000 Republic credits...

[barend]

The whole idea behind Qui Gon's character was that he was a rogue Jedi of sorts, doing things his own way and following the Force in whatever manner he sees fit.

Hence, since Anakin is under Qui Gon's juristiction, not the Jedi's, and if Qui Gon says (or doesnt say, even) "I wont train him, since you forbid it, but hes my responsibilty" then thats his burden to bear.

and so Qui-gon persued his noble yet short career as a probono tutor for underprivellaged kids to spite jedi elimentary and their material obsesession.

Hey, I've got it: that explains why the Jedi are in such a bad way by the time of AotC. When Shmi found out what they'd dragged her son into, she immediately sued them for 300,000,000,000 Republic credits...

which they said was the price of his school fee's anyway and called it even.




that's why they encouraged luke to kill the emporer and his father... because taking over the galaxy was the only way he could afford to pay the kind of fees kenobi and yoda were expecting as they only had one student to cover multiple fee's to which they were otherwised accostomed.

[jariten]

Screw the 'bigger picture'; that is child endangerment

We aren't just taking about a kid who might become a powerful Jedi, its a kid who Qui thinks is The Chosen One, a guy who was written about in a prophecy, a guy who was going to finally destroy the sith and restore balance etc.

Ideas too big to just cast aside because there might be some danger involved in becoming a Jedi, or because the Jedi forbid it (defying the councl- again, this is in character)

Danger which, of cousre, Shmi knew all about when she let her son go off and do something "that he'd always dreamed of doing".

"sorry mom, becoming a Jedi is dangerous so they sent me back here to be a slave for the rest of my life on one of the most lawless and dangerous planets in the galaxy. So thats my dreams, life and possible future of the galaxy all down the shitter".

What is it about all this that makes him a "moron"?

And how come he's under Qui-Gon's 'jurisdiction' in the first place?

He freed him from slavery.

and so Qui-gon persued his noble yet short career as a probono tutor for underprivellaged kids to spite jedi elimentary and their material obsesession.

"spite"

?????

This post has been edited by jariten: 03 May 2006 - 07:43 PM

[Sailor Abbey]

a guy who was going to finally destroy the sith

yeah, the sith whom nobody thought existed any more...

[jariten]

yeah, the sith whom nobody thought existed any more...

I was talking about Qui Gon, not the council. The fact they thought the sith extinct was a contributing factor in their dismissal of Anakin.

[Helena]

We aren't just taking about a kid who might become a powerful Jedi, its a kid who Qui thinks is The Chosen One, a guy who was written about in a prophecy, a guy who was going to finally destroy the sith and restore balance etc.

I don't care how powerful he was supposed to be; that is no excuse for putting a nine-year-old in serious danger. If Qui-Gon thought he was so important, that's all the more reason to keep him as safe as possible until he's old enough to take care of himself. If he'd somehow foreseen everything that would happen in advance, that might have been some excuse (though a pretty feeble one), but he didn't - he had no idea Anakin was going to take off in a starfighter and accidentally save the day, and he actually told Anakin to stay put and keep himself safe. The fact that everything turned out well just makes Qui-Gon incredibly lucky; it certainly doesn't make him any less of a moron.

"sorry mom, becoming a Jedi is dangerous so they sent me back here to be a slave for the rest of my life on one of the most lawless and dangerous planets in the galaxy. So thats my dreams, life and possible future of the galaxy all down the shitter".

Who said the Jedi had to send him back into slavery? Two very obvious alternatives present themselves: send someone to free his mother (which they should bloody well have done anyway), or keep him at the Temple until they can find a new home for him. Yes, I know his mother realised he'd face danger as a Jedi, but I think she probably assumed they'd wait until he was an ADULT before sending him into dangerous situations. If she was terrified every time he went pod-racing, what do you imagine she'd think about Qui-Gon dragging him into the midst of a planetary invasion?

He freed him from slavery.

So what? I repeat: what kind of stupid laws does the Republic have regarding child protection? If Qui-Gon had just paid for Anakin outright, would that still be OK?

It's all such utter BS. It's a classic example of the 'it's in the script' attitude that's so common in the PT: people don't behave in a certain way because it's sensible; they do it because they have to act that way in order to move the plot along. If Lucas had simply written a better plot - one that didn't involve Anakin as a nine-year-old, for instance - none of this would be remotely necessary.

[Sailor Abbey]

Who said the Jedi had to send him back into slavery? Two very obvious alternatives present themselves: send someone to free his mother (which they should bloody well have done anyway), or keep him at the Temple until they can find a new home for him.

And since you mentioned it…

how come the Jedi (who obviously number in the 10,000s considering the massive size of their temple) spend most of their time dicking around doing flips and sitting in stupid looking chairs when they could be out, ridding the two city planet of Tatooine of slavery altogether?

[diligent_d]

^ Good call.

[Gobbler]

^ Seconded.

[barend]

^thirded

[barend]

"spite"

?????

oh, try to keep up.

[jariten]

I don't care how powerful he was supposed to be; that is no excuse for putting a nine-year-old in serious danger. If Qui-Gon thought he was so important, that's all the more reason to keep him as safe as possible until he's old enough to take care of himself

Until he's old enough to do what? Train himself? He wasn't going to become a powerful anything that way, Chosen One or not. The Jedi already said that he couldnt have a master, so what good would sitting around on Courascant, or going back to Tatooine do? The only way forward was for Qui Gon to keep him at his side and "train" him regardless. There was no one else around to do what Qui felt needed to be done. Even Obi Wan wasn't interested and thought he was making a mistake.

Sending him back to Tatooine would have meant the end of the Chosen One and (in Quis eyes) the end of the Jedi, so scratch that.

Leaving him behind on Courascant would have left him alone on an alien planet with no one to train him (the Jedi forbid it remember) with nothing much to do until someone comes along and carts him off to Tatooine again, which would have meant the end of the Chosen One and (in Qui's eyes) the end of the Jedi, so scratch that.

And considering how young the Jedi in AotC were, it looks like they get sent out in danger way before adulthood. Again, training to become a Jedi is, you know, dangerous.

Now then, if the Jedi had said "ok, you can train him", then taking him to Naboo would have been stupid, Qui could just have waited until that mission was over to start Anakins training. Since they said no though, that also meant no to leaving him on C and no to sending him back to T.

The reason the Jedi give in and let Obi train Anakin is that they've realised that,　like Qui Gon, Obi will train Anakin regardless of what they say.


OK, how about we forget about all that and let me ask this instead, if Qui hadn't taken him, how would Qui have been assured that Anakin would be trained as a Jedi, thus making him powerful enough to eventually defeat the sith? Because neither of these two things

Two very obvious alternatives present themselves: send someone to free his mother (which they should bloody well have done anyway), or keep him at the Temple until they can find a new home for him.

would have done it. And on top of that theres the "no attachments" policy right? The Jedi were afraid of that in Anakin, a fear thats actually justified and which actually leads him to the darkside in the end.
So why would they encourage that? Why bring his mother to Courascant, when they already thought he had been with her too long?