[jariten]

Of course it’s getting out of hand, we’re adults talking about films for children!

1.There is steam inside the slug.
2. Han and Leia's feet squish when they walk around, so there's obviously some standing liquid or at least dampness, not the ice one would expect in the cold of space.
3. Han, Chewie and Leia do not freeze to death, nor do they show any signs of exposure to vacuum

Right. So isn’t that the same thing as saying “well, Obi and Annie don’t show any physical signs of being burnt, so on Mustafar the lava is clearly only hot sometimes”? There’s steam inside the slug but there shouldn’t be. They should freeze to death but they don’t.

Obi and Anny should burn up, but they don’t.

Luke shouldn’t be able to destroy the death Star, but he does.

Padme shouldn’t (probably) have survived the Geonosis battle without a lightsabre, but she did.

Han shouldn’t have been able to find Luke on Hoth, but he did.

Luke didn’t have enough time to barely even start his training, but he did.

They should’ve froze to death/been blown off the landing platform on Bespin, but they weren’t.

The howling wind on the balcony in AotC and RotS should’ve drowned out any conversation, but it didn’t.

The lists go on and on. Let’s just live with it, shall we?

[Despondent]

Let’s just live with it, shall we?

Like polar magnets.

[Storm]

because it can be rationalized within the confines of the film's conceptual parameters!!!

the lava one cannot.

I thought I mentioned that the droid and platform Anakin and Obi-Wan surf on have blue shields on the bottom. They are not hard to see. If you really wanted to defend it you could say that the shields protected them from the heat.

I'm not trying to point out that this scene is realistic, but rather that there are unbelievable circumstances throughout both the PT AND OT. Barend, you simply can't justify Luke being able to destroy the first Death Star. It's not possible. For some unknown reason, Luke excels at flying an X-wing and using a light saber with literally no training. Realistic? I think not.

This post has been edited by Storm: 09 May 2006 - 10:53 PM

[jariten]

I thought I mentioned that the droid and platform Anakin and Obi-Wan surf on have blue shields on the bottom. They are not hard to see. If you really wanted to defend it you could say that the shields protected them from the heat.

(repeated for clarity)

[barend]

Of course it’s getting out of hand, we’re adults talking about films for children!

have you ever seen Star Wars in the childrens section?

Right. So isn’t that the same thing as saying “well, Obi and Annie don’t show any physical signs of being burnt, so on Mustafar the lava is clearly only hot sometimes”? There’s steam inside the slug but there shouldn’t be. They should freeze to death but they don’t.

how is it...? the guy just took time out of his day to explain that the 'vacuum' of space and the inside of a giant creature are two seperate environments, which you seem to be struglling with. what you see on the screen is everything we know about the inside of a giant worm, its a new environment... READ MY GODDAMNED POSTS!!!

you're making people repeat themselves, by repeating yourself!

so if these are films intended for children you're definatley using a level of arguing that fits the criteria.

Lava on the other hand, we are not learning about.

Obi and Anny should burn up, but they don’t.

exactly

Luke shouldn’t be able to destroy the death Star, but he does.

why shouldn't he? they found a weakness and had co-ordinates.

Padme shouldn’t (probably) have survived the Geonosis battle without a lightsabre, but she did.

why's that?

Han shouldn’t have been able to find Luke on Hoth, but he did.

that was definatley a fluke, i won't argue outside of the fact that that had his position from his last transmission, and he was attacked right after making it, so he would have been with in reasonable distance of that location, as he would have frozen to death had the beastie dragged him too far.

Luke didn’t have enough time to barely even start his training, but he did.

compared to what?

They should’ve froze to death/been blown off the landing platform on Bespin, but they weren’t.

different environment again, its been easily explained with reasonable use and assuption, in a manner i've never heard from a gusher.

The howling wind on the balcony in AotC and RotS should’ve drowned out any conversation, but it didn’t.

there was amazingly NO wind to drown them out wiith...

The lists go on and on. Let’s just live with it, shall we?

I can't because it's not the way you claim it to be...

but no one's holding a gun to your head to stay an argue... you haven't added to this argument since your second post in it.

[barend]

I thought I mentioned that the droid and platform Anakin and Obi-Wan surf on have blue shields on the bottom. They are not hard to see. If you really wanted to defend it you could say that the shields protected them from the heat.

you did and i addressed it, and it was inadequate to countering the initial statement.

the heat is all around. the blue sheild we SEE only covers the base of the 'platforms' it doesn't cover them completley...
it's like shooting someone in the heat even though they're wearing a bullet proof vest.

I'm not trying to point out that this scene is realistic, but rather that there are unbelievable circumstances throughout both the PT AND OT. Barend, you simply can't justify Luke being able to destroy the first Death Star. It's not possible. For some unknown reason, Luke excels at flying an X-wing and using a light saber with literally no training. Realistic? I think not.

so again you attack points ignoring the addressed issues...

how convinient... again.... and again...

so despite all this talk about luke being quite a pilot (before they even leave tatooine), and later mentioning his experience in targetting moving creatures in flying vehicles, aquiring th eplans to the battle station that has a major design flaw and external port that leads to this weakness, and guiding this shot with this powerful force we've been hearing so much about...

you say it's impossible with in those confines?

handling a lightsabre without training?

i'm starting to wonder what goes on in these specail editions you guys are into....

let's look at his progresss....

1. he picks it up, hits the only switch on it and motions it in the same way people do when they pick up one of my swords for the first time.

2. he uses it against a training droid who shoots him in the ass. ben gives him a few pointers. (baring in mind that the general principal of a sword is 'stick your enemy with the pointy end')

3. he gets trained by yoda

4. admitedly, he does unrealistically well against vader, who we know wants to take him alive

5. the next time he whips it out it's been several years and he's had nothing better to do than train...

and over all its a stick of light that cuts through virtually anything...

[Gobbler]

So where did that go for RotS? How can you believe a teenager who had never even been IN an xwing before could destroy the Death Star against a (potential) battalian on highly trained Empire troops where all of his highly trained pals had failed...

Yeah, that had me wondering, too. But Luke trained on the T-16 which was very much alike the X-Wing, so I guess it's not all that bad.

well you're not a very good geek...

LIVING CREATURES GENERATE WARMTH!!!!

BODY MASS IS CORRELATIVE TO WARMTH GENERATED!!!

HAN + LIEA, INSIDE GIANT LIVING CREATURE = NOT COLD

why argue when you ignore the elements of the case?!?!

It sounds like you thought that the blood-starts-to-boil-once-you-step-out-into-vacuum thing was something I came up with to sound funny. *scratches head* It's not a matter of the warmth anything generates there, it's about the vacuum. It's a pressure thing, like the problems you'll encounter when you do some deep-see-diving or fly some thousand kilometres high in the air with no protection. Do it, and you're done for.

[jariten]

the guy just took time out of his day to explain that the 'vacuum' of space and the inside of a giant creature are two seperate environments, which you seem to be struglling with. what you see on the screen is everything we know about the inside of a giant worm, its a new environment... READ MY GODDAMNED POSTS!!!

The guy basically said “Han and the others clearly can survive the environment because we see them surviving the environment”.
To which I said “that’s the same as saying Obi and Ani survive the environment because we see them surviving the environment.”
A bollocks argument, in other words.
Yoy come up with all kinds of things to explain why you think the stupid space worm is more believable than Mustafar, even though it opens directly out into the vacuum of space. I don’t care if it’s a “new environment” or not, IT OPENS OUT INTO THE VACUUM OF SPACE.

Oh, but they added a smoke machine, an SFX trick to help you swallow it.

They also added the shields, an SFX trick to show that whoevers on the platform would be protected from the heat. But NO DICE LUCAS! Heats all around! You can’t fool me with a simple SFX trick!

p.s for anyone late into this discussion, I’m not trying to advocate any hatred of ESB because it has a stupid, unrealistic scene in it, only that if you hate RotS for having a stupid, unrealistic scene in it, you’re damning the lot of them.

Oh, and…
Luke had never so much as stepped foot in an Xwing, yet he destroyed the Death Star (the last bit was the Force, the rest certainly wasn’t).
Luke trained for about 20 minutes with Yoda and, BLAM! He’s off to fight Vader, somersaulting.
Padme shouldn’t have survived the Geonosis battle with that many lazer blasts flying about and no shielding and nothing to deflect blasts.

And whats the explanation for Bespin again? Forcefields? Not like the ones on Mustafar though, I’m sure…

[barend]

what's the explanation again...

what are you waiting till i get tired of typing it? GO BACK AND READ IT!!!

20 minutes? 20 minutes. don't be a retard.

if that's what you think then i'm wasting my time arguing with you because you understand less than i ever gave you credit for.

as for the x-wing...
LUKE WAS A FUCKING PILOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

watch the godamned film, they mention it like four times during the film, it seemed to be something of importance as they mentioned it more than once!!!!

what's worse is people have been saying to you this over and over and you're ignoring it...

at least i can explain shit away... the asteroid had a thin atmosphere...
the MOON of endor had a jungle.

don't repeat the bit about teh shielding its more than discredited.

and gobler... you quoted jariten with my name on it.

please don't.

[Gobbler]

Oh my oh my, must be the shock from the exams yesterday.

*bows down*
Gomenasai.

[barend]

i hope you didn't do THAT in the exams.

[jariten]

How long did that sequence with Yoda last then?
Too short to learn what he did. Yet it worked. We're able to put the nonsense to the back of our minds because thats what SW has always asked of us.

But the X wing thing though, come on.

Luke had never sat in an X wing before, yet he suceeded where the other highly trained pilots failed. You call Ben patronisingly praising Luke justification for what happens at the end?

I mean, how fast were they zipping around in those things?

How tight was that trench?

How well trained were the Stormtroopers?

How many hundreds of TIES did the Empire lauch (no, wait, SHOULD the Empire have launched)?

How fast did his comrades die?

Logic dictated that he should have died first, but...

This post has been edited by jariten: 10 May 2006 - 04:44 AM

[Sailor Abbey]

I thought I mentioned that the droid and platform Anakin and Obi-Wan surf on have blue shields on the bottom. They are not hard to see. If you really wanted to defend it you could say that the shields protected them from the heat.

The shields might protect their feet from melting onto the metal, but the ambient temperature would probably be somewhere near 500F considering the entire planet is swimming in lava. I don’t have an issue with the alien metal that I know nothing about being protected by some sort of high tech energy shield. I do have a huge issue with human being which I know quite a bit about (being one my self) not bursting into flames from the surrounding heat or not dying instantly from inhaling what can only be toxic gasses. Where is all the oxygen coming from exactly - its not coming from photosynthesis I’m pretty sure.

It is plausible that the gigantic asteroid has a thin atmosphere (which I have already pointed out) and therefore the inside of a gigantic worm would not be a vacuum. Therefore their blood would not boil, nor would they necessarily freeze.

The point is, I am a human being and have been for over 25 years. I also learned about hot lava when I was in third grade from watching things like cartoons.

I am not an astrophysicist and surprisingly enough, I know very little about the intricacies of space. If not for years of looking stuff up on the internet and watching Bill Nye the Science Guy, I probably would know absolutely nothing about it.

Let me break it down for you as simply as possible:

human being + hot lava = burning flesh (see anakin burst into flames near edge of lava river for details)

human being + internal organs of gigantic alien worm = I have no idea (and neither does anyone else for that matter cause there’s no such thing as far as anybody knows)

Barend, you simply can't justify Luke being able to destroy the first Death Star.

Anybody can justify that. All you have to do is watch the movie. They give you lots of reasons why Luke would be able to do so - mainly because of this mysterious energy created by all living things called… called… what was it again, I cant seem to recall…

How long did that sequence with Yoda last then?
Too short to learn what he did.

How do you know that?

[Gobbler]

It is plausible that the gigantic asteroid has a thin atmosphere (which I have already pointed out) and therefore the inside of a gigantic worm would not be a vacuum. Therefore their blood would not boil, nor would they necessarily freeze.

I guess you could have a point there, but still it's very unlikely. The book mentioned that the asteroid was of the size of a little moon, but that's not enough to hold an atmosphere in place. Only a few kick-ass celestial bodies like momma earth have the requirements to do that. Our moon, for example, hasn't got an atmosphere, but rather a little exosphere, hardly worth mentioning.

[Sailor Abbey]

It could have had a dense iron core and maybe some sort of electromagnetic thing that helps hold in an atmosphere.

I’m just saying its possible. We’ll never know really. But what we do know for a fact is that lava is really hot.