[Casual Fan]

I raised this in another thread, but it was suggested that I start a thread on it. I've not been losing sleep over this, but it would be nice to get an answer.

In the OT, the Empire uses imperial stormtroopers, who can't aim. The rebel alliance uses normal-looking human soldiers.

In The Phantom Menace, the Trade Federation has an army of battle droids, that it controls from orbiting spaceships. They also can't aim. They are pretty effective because the Republic doesn't have any army at all, and Naboo just has pilots and a Gungan militia.

In the two other OT movies, we learn that the battle droids are manufactured on Geonosis. The Separatists absorb the Trade Federation, and nearly take over the galaxy with what seems to be an all droid army. At least they manage to kill alot of Jedi. There even is a cyborg general. The Republic, which we learn becomes the Empire, counters with an army of cloned humans, which become the stormtroopers.*

When I first saw the droid army in TPM, I thought the idea was pretty cool. TPM came out around the time as Iraq II, and I though the droid army was Lucas' way of poking fun at the increasing reliance of militaries on high-tech gizmos in the real world. I especially liked the fact that there was an equivalent to an "off" switch in the movie. I just assumed at the time that the droids were satire.

Lucas using them in the two other movies as the mainstay of the Separatists raises a question. Apparently the droids were effective after all, or else the Separatists never had a chance. So why was the Trade Federation the only outfit with droids? Why didn't the Republic counter the threat of manufacturing its own droid army? And why -the internal story reason, not that Lucas hadn't thought of them yet- aren't they used in the OT universe?

There's got to be some explanation in the EU for this.

*Lucas is using the cheese scifi convention of pretending "clones" are created as fully formed adults, using some sort of ultimate Xerox machine; the clone stormtroopers have no relation to clones that actually exist in reality.

[Revan-47]

Palpatine ordered for them all to be shut down. in the empires reign, all traces were probably destroyed, although i like to imagine rogues and lone fighter like people finding abandoned battle droids, and tweaking them, making them enhanced custom battle droids.

[jariten]

First of all i'm glad the BD's are getting a bit of love around here at least. Those dopey voices in RotS aside, I really like them.

Apparently the droids were effective after all, or else the Separatists never had a chance

They're only effective because of their overwhelming numbers (a la Geonosis). The Jedi would have won the war with the clones if they were even fighting a war that was winnable in the first place.

So why was the Trade Federation the only outfit with droids?

They wern't. Its stated in AotC that (I think) The Techno Union had droids of its own. As we saw in TPM, despite their pulpish, slightly goofy name, the BD's aren't only used for fighting.
The trouble started when the seperatists started to bond money and resourses (including the BD's) together against the Republic.

Why didn't the Republic counter the threat of manufacturing its own droid army?

because they're rubbish. Clones are superior in every way, which is the direction things took once the first serious threat against the Republic (the Seps) was introduced.

And why -the internal story reason, not that Lucas hadn't thought of them yet- aren't they used in the OT universe?

Clones are essentially BD's Mk.II. They do everything the BD's can do, only better.
The main thing about Palps and the Clones is that after TPM theres no way he'd be able to trust the BD's to do an effective job in taking out the Jedi (hence the events in 2 and 3).

the clone stormtroopers have no relation to clones that actually exist in reality.

I think by the time of the OT the stormtroopers are a mix of old clones and regular conscripts (just a decent guess of course, no evidence exists about this).

[Revan-47]

Actually, there is some evidence. i dont know if anybody'd read this in the EU, but Han is actually in the Stormtrooper academy, when he witnesses a trooper being mean to chewbacca or something, so he kills the stormtrooper and escapes with chewie.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Actually, there is some evidence. i dont know if anybody'd read this in the EU, but Han is actually in the Stormtrooper academy, when he witnesses a trooper being mean to chewbacca or something, so he kills the stormtrooper and escapes with chewie.

Almost correct... it wasn't really the 'Stormtrooper' Academy. It was the Imperial Academy. Han became a cadet in the Imperial Navy around the time the Wookiees were being used for slave labor to build the Maw Installation and the Death Star. Han found slavery despicable his entire life, and was befriended (or rather, parented) by a female Wookiee, named Dewlanna aboard the ship Trader's Luck. Han also aided in the rescue of a certain influential person from slavery, named Bria Tharen, who became a vital part of the operation that would eventually become the Rebellion. While Han was stationed on a particular moon under the control of the Empire, he was ordered to use physical violence on Chewbacca. Han alledgedly refused his orders and escaped with Chewie, only to be captured, and stripped of his rankings, then kicked out of the Imperial Navy for insubordination. Han wasn't a Stormtrooper, he was a Naval Officer, and he dreamed of one day being in control of an Imperial capital ship... that kinda fell through, though. If you haven't read the Han Solo Trilogy, I recommend it... good reading material.

[Revan-47]

Have u read all of the novels? I would say books, but they have a jar jar binks series for kids so...

[Despondent]

I thought the bug people built the death star.


And I don't care if I'm incorrect, ok? Footnote the EU and ibid all day. I'm really not that interested.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Have u read all of the novels? I would say books, but they have a jar jar binks series for kids so...

All of the Han Solo Trilogy novels? Yes. All of the kids books? No. I don't have any use for kids books. I haven't had any use for kids books since I was very young (about 3 or 4).

[Revan-47]

have u read all of the STAR WARS novels. thats why u used the word novel, becasue i doubt you've read the children's books.

[Jejef Thgaron]

have u read all of the STAR WARS novels. thats why u used the word novel, becasue i doubt you've read the children's books.

I haven't read them all. I've read Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, The Rise of Darth Vader, The Paradise Snare, The Hutt Gambit, Rebel Dawn, and I'm currently reading Tales of the Bounty Hunter. I've read other 'novels' in the past, but I have never read any of the children's 'books'.

[miladyblue]

One thing that makes me wonder about the cloned men who eventually become the stormtroopers - if there was an age acceleration (device? chemical? hormone? other process?) to make them adults to become soldiers under the time it would take for a human to mature normally, wouldn't that still be in effect? How long would a trooper be in the prime of his life before the degenerative effects of aging (arthritis, loss of stamina, etc.) kick in?

[Jedi_1138]

Maybe they wheren't supposed to see that age?

Maybe that's why they had to switch to 'normal' humans to join the stormtroopers?

[Cobnat]

I raised this in another thread, but it was suggested that I start a thread on it. I've not been losing sleep over this, but it would be nice to get an answer.

In the OT, the Empire uses imperial stormtroopers, who can't aim. The rebel alliance uses normal-looking human soldiers.

In The Phantom Menace, the Trade Federation has an army of battle droids, that it controls from orbiting spaceships. They also can't aim. They are pretty effective because the Republic doesn't have any army at all, and Naboo just has pilots and a Gungan militia.

In the two other OT movies, we learn that the battle droids are manufactured on Geonosis. The Separatists absorb the Trade Federation, and nearly take over the galaxy with what seems to be an all droid army. At least they manage to kill alot of Jedi. There even is a cyborg general. The Republic, which we learn becomes the Empire, counters with an army of cloned humans, which become the stormtroopers.*

When I first saw the droid army in TPM, I thought the idea was pretty cool. TPM came out around the time as Iraq II, and I though the droid army was Lucas' way of poking fun at the increasing reliance of militaries on high-tech gizmos in the real world. I especially liked the fact that there was an equivalent to an "off" switch in the movie. I just assumed at the time that the droids were satire.

Lucas using them in the two other movies as the mainstay of the Separatists raises a question. Apparently the droids were effective after all, or else the Separatists never had a chance. So why was the Trade Federation the only outfit with droids? Why didn't the Republic counter the threat of manufacturing its own droid army? And why -the internal story reason, not that Lucas hadn't thought of them yet- aren't they used in the OT universe?

There's got to be some explanation in the EU for this.

*Lucas is using the cheese scifi convention of pretending "clones" are created as fully formed adults, using some sort of ultimate Xerox machine; the clone stormtroopers have no relation to clones that actually exist in reality.

What happened was after Phantom Menace the wierd looking, Chinese Sounding Alien Overlords installed emotions, fears and pain into the droids thinking this would create Uber Soldats, unfortuantly the only thing the droids became was a bunch of PMS tree huggers, after that the Chinese Sounding Alien Overlords (CSAO for convience) realised that if they made better quality droids, they would tend to shoot better, so they did and here we are... personaly I think Vader should have inherited the droid army but it seems he was just too evil for sending non-humans to thier doom.

[darth_paul]

*Lucas is using the cheese scifi convention of pretending "clones" are created as fully formed adults, using some sort of ultimate Xerox machine; the clone stormtroopers have no relation to clones that actually exist in reality.

They weren't created fully formed as adults, they were mass produced like test tube babies, but rapidly aged to Jango Fett's age within months somehow that wasn't explained fully. They even showed some of them who were exactly like little Boba, so there were stages of their development. Perhaps even that was too slow though to keep up with the mounting rebellion, so they started recruiting regular humans to fill the ranks.

[barend]

they probably didn't slow down in their aging...

they were the equivilant of 20 in AOTC and 40 by the time of ROTS, within four years they all died of old age and the emporer just quickly recruited people and stuck them in the uniforms similar to the clones so people would naturally fear them...

but as the ewoks eventually showed us, they were just a bunch of usless geeks who took the job because chicks dig dudes in uniform...
they could not fight their way out of a paperbag... but the uniform struck fear into the hearts of a galaxy.