[Kirby]

Hip hop is best appreciated if you start with the indie/experimental hip hop and UK grime scenes instead. A brief list of my personal hip hop/grime reccommendations:

*Snip*

It's incredibly unfair to judge hip hop by what you see on TV and hear on the radio. There's a huge scene of incredibly talented artists out there.

In total agree-ance.

While I haven't listened to the spacific songs that you've recomended, I have listened to most of the artists. If you don't like rap, those guys can change your mind.

As for my taste, I've always like the softer, smoother, R&B. Anything romantic like.

[Heccubus]

Well it should be an obvious conclusion to come to. If you base your ideas of rock music around what's on the radio, yeah, it sounds like shit. But go to your local indie records stores and you discover all kinds of amazing music outside of the Billboard charts.
The same theory can be applied to any music:

Classic/indie ___(genre)___ > Mainstream ___(genre)___

Not always the case (classic electronic music is basically disco, which is 100% useless in my books, for instance) but more true than false.

[barend]

to add some rediculously awsome rap/hip hop to the list that you should listen to...

New Kingdom - 'paradise don't come cheap' (albumn)

Cannibal Ox - (they only have the one album, i've forgotten its name)

the first Grave Diggaz album

the pharcide are brilliant

and of course the 'judgement night' soundtrack is very worth owing!!!

[Jordan]

At this point in my life I'm not listening to rap at all. With age I've out grown it entirely.

I've listened to a ton of underground, backstreet, super hip and unknown hip hop artists and my opinion on them is not high.

I love music and am almost always concious of what I'm listening too. I await favorite moments in songs, hear every lyric, and jive while listening. I can do that with rock but not rap.

Early to mid 90's rap is good. Eminem and Dre made one good CD each in 99 and 2000. But even then I'm not listening to the shit any more. Just rep'in it for the sake of nostalgia.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 18 May 2006 - 01:25 AM

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

The new Ghostface Killah album is making my brain spin a billion different directions. Very keen!

[Slade]

Two things:

1: NWA: YES!! Old school gangsta rap for the win! Much <3 for Compton.

2: Hehe. Jordan said "phat."

That is all. Up up and away from the music forums for a few more months!

[Jordan]

Ghostface killa made his debut on ONLY built 4 cuban linx, a Raekwon album. I think his raps on that album are some of his best. Iron Man, his debut solo had a good track line up as well. I think that album was the last good wutang album produced.

The best song on Iron man is 'winter warz'. What makes that song is the last segment of the song when Cappadonna breaks out with some sweet rhymes that pretty much over shadow Ghostfaces and every one else on that CD.

Cappaodonnas rap in winterwarz

You heard of the raps before but kept waitin
for the sun of song, I keep dancehalls strong
Beats never worthy of my cause, I prolong
Extravangza, time sits still
No propoganda, be wary of the skill
As I bring forth the music, make love to your eardrum
Dedicated to rap nigga beware of the fearsome
Lebanon Don, Malcolm X beat threat
CD massacre, murder to cassette
I blow the shop up, you ain't seen nuttin yet
One man ran, tryin to get away from it
Put your bifocal on, watch me a-cometh
into your chamber like Freddy enter dream
Discombumberate your technique and your scheme
Four course applause, like a black dat to dat
You're stuck on stupid like I'm stuck on the map
Nowhere to go except next show bro
Entertainin motherfuckers can't stop O
in battlin, you don't want me to start tattlin
All upon the stage cause y'all snakes keep rattlin
Bitch, you ain't got nothin on the rich
Every other day my whole dress code switch
So just in case you want to clock me like Sherry
All y'all crab bitches ain't got to worry
Can't get a nigga like Don dime a dozen
Even if I'm smoked out I can't be scoped out
I'm too ill, I represent Park Hill
See my face on the twenty dollar bill
Cash it in, and get ten dollars back
The fat LP with Cappachino on the wax
Pass it in your think, put valve up to twelve
Put all the other LP's back on the shelf
And smoke a blunt, and dial 9-1-7
1-6-0-4-9-3-11
And you could get long dick hip-hop affection
I damage any MC who step in my direction
I'm Staten Island's best son fuck what you heard
Niggaz still talkin that shit is absurd
My repotoire, is U.S.S.R.
P.L.O. style got thrown out the car
and ran over, by the Method Man jeep
Divine can't define my style is so deep
like pussy, my low cut fade stay bushy
like a porcupine, I part backs like a spine
Cut you like a blunt and reconstruct your design
I know you want to diss me, but I can read your mind
Cuz you weak in the knees, like SWV
Tryin to get a title like Wu Killa Bee
Kid change your habit, you know I'm friends with the Abbott
Me and RZA ridin name printed in the tablet
under vets, we paid our debts for mad years
Hibernate the sound, and now we out like beers
and blunt power, born physically power speakin
The truth in the song be the pro-black teachin

That's a lot of words.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 01 October 2006 - 04:27 AM

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

His debut? It was on Enter The 36 Chambers with the rest of the Wu.

[blueoceans]

Rap is such a broad category anymore. In the early 1980's, Rap and Hip Hop were pretty much regarded as being one in the same. There was a typical look to it,.mostly youthful persons of african-american descent wearing trendy sneakers, gold chains, baseball caps (or kangols) and shades and dispersing rapid rhymes accompanied with bass driven beats. Today, its expanded and branched out into so many sub-categories. Most of the Rap and Hip Hop produced in the early-to-mid 1980's is now referred to as Old School. In the late 1980's, Gangsta Rap was introduced by bands like Public Enemy and NWA, and took rap into a different direction. These days, just about racial,gender,age demographic has produced a "rap" song by now. Rap is no longer seen as a trendy form of lyrical exp​ression seen mostly amongst young black males,..its now more of a lifestyle or franchise.

Getting back to the topic,..I guess it depends open what the author of this topic is defining as "rap" music. I like most rap music. I like most of what came out of the 1980's and early to mid 1990's....somewhere in the mid to late 1990's,..rap & hip hop seemed to have taken on an entirely different direction. lyrics became faster,..bass was increased and so overlayered within the mixing process at the studio that rap music lost its smoothness. Rap also got more grittier and hardcore, and less mainstream. Rap became blacker, if you will...catering mostly to a black audience, unlike Hip hop which is more mainstream and can get airplay on a larger list of radio stations, such as top 40.

gradually, the grittier more "hardcore" rap also slowly took over the top 40 as well. even r&b took on a new defining, being somewhat mixed in with rap. groups like nelly and usher are an example of this. then theres the hardcore rap,.with the rapper cussing out obscenities about every 3rd or 4th word,..canibus would be an example of this. the cool groups of the past, such as Run DMC, EPMD, Tribe called Quest, DelaSoul..that just focused on letting out smooth and trendy lyrics from their mics started fading away. Rappers started putting each other down with insults,.such was the case with L.L. Cool J and Kool Moe Dee. this carried onto other rappers, and soon we found ourselves buying album chocked full of lyrical insults.

Right around this same time, other rappers took on the gangster scene. this was more than likely started right around the same time rapper Ice T released "Colors", describing the gang life of the Bloods and Crips gangs based out of Los Angeles. Other rapper followed suit, releasing similiar albums from their studios, and/or prison cells.

what we have today, is virtually every rap song needed additional support. Just about every rap video on MTV now has the main artist who is "featuring" someone. why do rappers do this? why do they need to feature anyone? I must have been sleeping when MTV aired the Motley Crue video "Dr. FeelGood" featuring Poison and Steel Heart. If youre an artist trying to establish yourself in the music industry, why would you want to feature anyone,..it detracts too much from your own talent. chances are, it could even steal spotlight from you, and shine it on the other artist instead. Now, Im not talking about just some random song that 2 artists decide to get together and have fun on,..like Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings with "Luckenbach, Texas"...or Alan Jackson and Jimmy Buffet did with "Its 5'Oclock somewhere",....but when it gets so repetitive that its like every other song,..then thats where it becomes troublesome.

All too much with rap music,.its become sort of a tirade of black pride. Not that blacks are being racist,.but they are simply letting the world know that rap and hip hop music is simply a "black thing" and is best left to blacks to perfom it. They feel the same way about having Caucasians in the NBA as well. They are not being hateful at all..they are.just saying they are the best at these venues. But, no matter what,..whites will always attempt to enter the NBA, and try their hand at rap music too. The world has seen many white rappers come into the scene,..release a handful of albums,.some even hits,..then fade away,..or die out big. this was the case with 3rd Base, Vanilla Ice, and Snow. Yet, one white rapper simply refuses to die out,..which is Enimem. Honestly, he is the only white rapper that I can not stand. He is like the evil white cockroach of the rap world that refuses to die,..even when you try to spray him down with Black Flag (no pun intended-seriously).
He has outlived all other white rappers-no other white rapper has released as many albums as him, or survived in the rap world as long as him...Eminem is going on 10 years strong now..maybe he has been formally accepted into the world of rap, and isnt having other rappers try to wash him out of the scene. If "In Living Color" was still being aired, the Wayan Bros. would surely be making fun of him non-stop on their shows. And its not like there is other white rappers to listen to right now,..its just him...he sort of monopolized rap music perfomed by whites.

Well, with everything being said. the rap music i like, isnt made anymore..not in the same style anyways,..that all stopped around the mid 1990's before everything got crazy,..which seemed to happen right after the East Coast/West Coast wars that ended with the deaths of Tu-Pac and Biggie. the only rap group today i think that has any true talent, IMHO,.would be OutKast.

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

He has outlived all other white rappers-no other white rapper has released as many albums as him, or survived in the rap world as long as him...

Uhhhhhh...

the only rap group today i think that has any true talent, IMHO,.would be OutKast.

Then you're willfully ignoring a LOT. It's ridiculous to pigeonhole any genre of music as having only one talented act. If you're saying they're the only hip-hop act YOU like, fine. They're not the only talented act out there, though.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 22 October 2006 - 08:15 AM

[Jordan]

They feel the same way about having Caucasians in the NBA as well. They are not being hateful at all..they are.just saying they are the best at these venues. But, no matter what,..whites will always attempt to enter the NBA, and try their hand at rap music too

I know some white people that think blacks suck at playing the Quaterback because it's the only position that require brains, thats not hating right? Whites pwn at hockey and F1. I don't think it's right for white people to gloat about it, do you? It's a form of racial pride, which is something that causes conflict in multi-cultural settings.

European leagues beat the shit out of team all-black america in the olypmics. European and South American players are being seen in the first round of the NBA draft more and more in recent years.

Infact, Michael Jordan even thinks the Euro league is better than the US. They have the fundementals down pat, something young black hip hop generation in US basketball has forgotten. THey're hype stars. The glory days of BBall are over. MJ, Magic, and the rest of the 80's-early-mid 90's players are all but retired.

And its not like there is other white rappers to listen to right now,..its just him...he sort of monopolized rap music perfomed by whites.

High and ALmighty, Beasty Boys, Paul Wall, Necro, etc... ANd the biggest beat maker in hip hop industry is Scott Storch, some jew-white boy. People pay the highest dollar for his production, since it's garunteed to move units.

White people can rap fine. Blacks just made a major stigma in society. That being they have soul and funk were as white people have no-soul and no-funk.

Any time a black person does something entirely run buy whites, he is seen as a pinoneer and international super star. When a white does it, but something that the black community is predominant in, he's seen as a culture theif and punk ass bitch, due in part to his lack of soul and 'keepin real' attitude.

[blueoceans]

Any time a black person does something entirely run buy whites, he is seen as a pinoneer and international super star. When a white does it, but something that the black community is predominant in, he's seen as a culture theif and punk ass bitch, due in part to his lack of soul and 'keepin real' attitude.

I guess by that assumption, you could say Elvis Presley stole rock n' roll from African Americans as well. But its not like blacks are very eager to reclaim it, they sort of despise rock and country music. With the exception of Charlie Pride, Lenny Kravitz and/or Jimmy Hendrix, and Vic Johnson,.few black artists venture out of the realm of soul, R&B, blues, rap, hip-hop and jazz. And its really sad, because music of all kinds should be loved and enjoyed by everyone,.. regardless of age, sex, gender, religion, nationality, and racial backgrounds. For example, today you see countless white kids dressing hip-hop styled, baggy jeans worn low exposing boxer breifs, caps tilted sideways..sometimes looking as if they are about to fall off,.and spotless expensive name brand sneakers. They are seen congregating in schools, malls, streets acting out the musical influences they are attuned to..which is fine,.. theres nothing wrong with their love of the music and its lifestyle. But on the flipside of that,.whens the last time youve seen any black girl wearing an Iron Maiden or Megadeth T-shirt?? Obviously, some demographic factions do tend to draw their own barriers on what they deem to be permissible influences for their own sub-culture, whether they are white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.

I noticed both Jordan and Mypantsareonfire took aim at pointing out to me that I may have missed mentioning the Beastie Boys as being contenders against Eminem's long running career in the rap industry. I didn forget about the Beastie Boys, I dont really consider them as being purists in the realm of hip-hop. The Beastie Boys have always seemed to possess a mixture of rap and rock, this is very much evident on "Licensed to Ill", with tracks like "Fight for your Right", and "No Sleep Til Brooklyn".I consider the Beastie Boys more closely related to the style of say, Kid Rock, than I do with the musical style of Eminem. You will always more than likely hear a Beastie Boys song being played on an alternative rock station whereas Eminem's songs would never be played. "Brass Monkey" & "Sabotage" are often played on many alternative rock stations across the country periodically, I know this just from surfing the web, and listening online to different stations nationwide. Eminem has a much steadier focus on hip-hop than the Beastie Boys do. Not saying one is better than the other, that would be like comparing orangutangs to apes. They each have their own style, and Eminem's style is more in line of what we have seen in the past from other white rappers, such as Vanilla Ice. The typical white guy talking with inner urban slang, dressing in killer threads and with his eyes squinting so tightly so he can look hardcore to you and possibly even scare you sometimes. The Beastie Boys are from Brooklyn, they arent trying to sound black, they all have Brooklyn accents,.thats where they are from,..they arent trying to be hardcore. and when they cuss, its because they are conveying their emotions about how they could care less about a situation, they arent cussing to try to sound off like they are "billy-badass-of-the-microphone".

This post has been edited by blueoceans: 22 October 2006 - 10:19 PM

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

Actually, I'd say the Beasties adhere to a much purer form of hip-hop than someone like Eminem. And the "alternative" stations I've listened to never had any problem playing Eminem...or House of Pain...or Cypress Hill...or the Beastie Boys. Notice a pattern? It's a little disheartening...

Any time a black person does something entirely run buy whites, he is seen as a pinoneer and international super star. When a white does it, but something that the black community is predominant in, he's seen as a culture theif and punk ass bitch, due in part to his lack of soul and 'keepin real' attitude.

That's a very superficial view of a much deeper and more complex social mentality/response. In the most basic terms, white people are often seen as having "everything" already. Why do they need to "take" something from another group, especially a minority group? This is a defensive response dating back hundreds of years that has a very real basis in history, all the way up until today. Moving into "white" culture is seen as an uphill battle into a social structure that for centuries was designed to keep black people lower down or out altogether. Whites moving in on black culture is seen as just beating up on a group that's already been beaten down time and time again by the people showing up wanting to take some more. This is the result of the traumas of history, and it's not something that cultures and groups just "get over" all of a sudden.

This post has been edited by MyPantsAreOnFire: 22 October 2006 - 10:25 PM

[Heccubus]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/White_rapper

Do some research before you start running your mouth.

[blueoceans]

Actually, I'd say the Beasties adhere to a much purer form of hip-hop than someone like Eminem. And the "alternative" stations I've listened to never had any problem playing Eminem...or House of Pain...or Cypress Hill...or the Beastie Boys. Notice a pattern? It's a little disheartening...

[quote name='blueoceans' post='147129' date='Oct 22 2006, 11:52 PM']

yeah,..im noticing a pattern,..several in fact.....the patterns ive been noticing is that more and more radio stations everywhere seem to give in to new bands that may try to alter, twist or redefine a genre that has already been established a certain way. and it doesnt matter what type of music it is, rap, rock, country, etc. if there's a new act thats up and coming, radio stations are quick to usher in the new artists and turn the backs to playing artists that have defined what that particular station should be, causing an alienation of the core fans. now, you might look at this and say,.oh well,.thats just what happens during the course of time,.bands come and go as the times do. thats not what im referring to. for example, you take a rock station that was established in the late 1970's (this is an actual station where im from) that used to play typical rock genre songs such as aerosmith, ac/dc, metallica, bon jovi, etc,..then through the course of time, this same station tries to alter its own genre a tad by playing some bands that would be reserved for say, an alternative station, or maybe even a top 40 station. such a station in question would not play music from a group like Limp Bizkit,.not that theres anything wrong with Fred Durst or Limp Bizkit,.but they dont belong on a station that was formerly dedicated to playing the aforementioned rock bands. slowly, one new band at a time, the station gains newer listeners that would have never listened to it before, and at the same time, loses a bulk of its core listening veterans that once supported the station. this crap happens all the time, and the reason that it does is largely so that the station in question can increase their public exposure, attract a larger listening audience, and of course increase their potential sales revenue. its all about money, thats pretty much whats runs the music industry anymore. it used to be about inspiration too, but you see little of that anymore. so basically what you have today is stations that claim to be only of one genre, but if a new artist comes about, that station will somehow try to find any possible remote likeness, and say,."oh well,.this is a ska rock band,..its still rock, so we will play it"..or "this band Nu-Metal, its kinda like metal,.so lets play their song" or "this is John Mayer,.he is like soft rock,.but he is doing well in the charts, so lets play his hit single"...it doesnt add up,..and this isnt the way things used to be. its all audio rubbish on the airwaves anymore.Even Gwen Stefani left No Doubt, a ska band, and went mainstream and in the process basically sold out, and is now considered an R&B artist. and Madonna went country for one album... those were rather obvious examples, but most artists and radio stations tend to try to go about making their genre switches un-noticed.

This post has been edited by blueoceans: 23 October 2006 - 12:02 AM