[Sagacity]

Right. I understand absolutely nothing. I'm just a stupid musician/artist that understands nothing. Every artist is an exception to this rule because there is no rule. Therefore, there is no such thing as an exception to this rule because it doesn't exist. You as the viewer have the right to critique a piece of art, but you don't have the right to change it if it isn't yours to begin with.

Oh, man, you're not one of those people?!

If you don't like the movies, I don't see why you're so enamored with this whole, "We should be able to have some kind of say so before someone changes their own work" ideology. It's not yours to change. Get over it.

We don't want a say in it. We want GL to keep the promises he made in the OT, and he made a whole lot of them. We don't want him to mess with what was already done. It's part of our culture. It's in our very language. So, like it or not, it IS ours.

[barend]

I did learn to read. I started learning to read when I was 2 years old. I don't want to read a movie. That's why we have these things made of paper called "books". They use words to make up sentences. Left to right. Front to back. Take Tylenol for any headaches, Mydol for any cramps.

chirst...

stop being a baby. there are people in the world who don't speak english... they make films too, is that okay with you captain america?

I don't need a point anymore... you've already confirmed my point. What was yours again?

you never really had one, you're just a another typical eyecandy junkie lowering the standards for everyone.

You probably have the full collection of Olsen Twins movies, too. Are they special editions?
How about Kazaam! with Shaq? Corky Romano?

i don't like the PT so suddenly you resort to this school yead bullshit.. honestly man, how old are you... you sound more like olsen twin material... me? i just wanna do them.

both...

So, Lucas should have forgot about the main character scheme and gone with two movies full of nothing but what's going on in the rest of the galaxy? I agree... totally unacceptable. And how do you justify making two full movies containing nothing but fighting a war, while the main plot of the movies suffers? Need I mention these are prequels and they are limited to a 2 hour time frame each? Do you think you could write a better script that would depict a war going on in the background while concentrating on a very extensive list of main characters and their exploits? I seriously doubt it.

So, Lucas should have forgot about the main character scheme and gone with two movies full of nothing but what's going on in the rest of the galaxy?

it seems that's what he did... well more to the point he focused on unimportant aspects.
we knew that ani and padme had to get together... we didn't really need to see how that happened.
the trilogy could have started with them already dating... it was what happened between ani and obi that was more important TO THE STORY!!! as their both characters of influence in the movies these are prequelling.

Do you think you could write a better script that would depict a war going on in the background while concentrating on a very extensive list of main characters and their exploits? I seriously doubt it.

Yes... yes i do. I would hardly call anikan, obiwan, palpatine, padme, and yoda an extensive list.
besides which there are many war movies that do just that. good ones.

Eh... no, I'm not. I know the difference between Orlando Bloom and Hayden Christenson.

good for you.

Seriously, stop with the high and mighty attitude. You're no better than Lucas. Your fecal matter stinks just as bad as everyone elses'. Have you ever written a trilogy and then turned around nearly 20 years later and tried to write a prequel trilogy to it? I wouldn't believe you if you said yes. It's not as easy as it may seem.

that was a retarded response for so many reasons...

i haven't jumped in a bathtub with a hair dryer either but i know not to do that.

the films were out for 20+ years... that's more than enough time to sit down with a notepad and take note of what the characters said of certain events before making a film that covers those events...

it's not that hard... nothing high and mighty about it. it's just basic common sense.

While I don't agree with adding the SE crap, I will agree that it is Lucas' project. I write music, and if I don't feel like it is finished I will leave it alone for the time being. I will go back to it... sometimes a few years later and change something or omit something. It's the same way with painting, or writing a "book" (see above for this). If an artist feels his/her project is unfinished at the time of creation, it is the artists' right to go back and finish it. Just because some other people say, "I don't like this, you should change it in this aspect," doesn't mean Lucas has to bow down to the public and create his universe the way everyone else wants it to be.

okay... lets say KING MISSLE had never released their albums on CD. just tape and record...
then they come out and release their back catalog on CD only all the tracks have been remixed by P-diddy and have the jamster frog all over them...

and then all the fans say; 'hey we want the origianls on CD' and they say, 'look this is how we really wanted it to sound, so now you can have it like this... sorry you like a hlaf completed work so much but you can still get it on second hand tape if you want them that bad!'

how would that make you feel?

Right. I understand absolutely nothing. I'm just a stupid musician/artist that understands nothing. Every artist is an exception to this rule because there is no rule. Therefore, there is no such thing as an exception to this rule because it doesn't exist. You as the viewer have the right to critique a piece of art, but you don't have the right to change it if it isn't yours to begin with. Why is Lucas only an exception? Anybody? Oh, oh, I know why! It's because you don't understand the principle behind a work of art. Lucas created it. He owns it. Why couldn't he do with it as he pleases? It's his. It's not yours, and it never was yours. If you don't like the movies, I don't see why you're so enamored with this whole, "We should be able to have some kind of say so before someone changes their own work" ideology. It's not yours to change. Get over it. If you have the actual editor's reel in your possession, it still isn't yours. Lucas created it and he will always be the creator of it. In no way, shape, or form will you ever be in control of what Lucas does to his own creation. That's the sad truth to this whole matter. Welcome to reality. Watch your step as you come on board.

"If what I am saying doesn't make sense, it is because sense is not something that can be made. It is something that must be sensed, and I, for one am insensed by all of this complacency." - King Missile

i've already cleared up this point... there's no 'law' but there are rules...
there are some guidlines to what makes music/film/books art... there is only one rule to making a prequel... it has to match up. it can't be different to what the original movie said it was... then it's just nothing.

[color=blue]"You as the viewer have the right to critique a piece of art,"

really? then how come everytime i do, some jerk starts yelling at me and saying Lucas can do whatever he likes???

It's because you don't understand the principle behind a work of art. Lucas created it. He owns it. Why couldn't he do with it as he pleases? It's his. It's not yours, and it never was yours. If you don't like the movies, I don't see why you're so enamored with this whole, "We should be able to have some kind of say so before someone changes their own work" ideology. It's not yours to change. Get over it. If you have the actual editor's reel in your possession, it still isn't yours. Lucas created it and he will always be the creator of it. In no way, shape, or form will you ever be in control of what Lucas does to his own creation. That's the sad truth to this whole matter. Welcome to reality. Watch your step as you come on board.

the principal behind a piece of work is once its complete, its complete... there can only be one submission... if its constantly 'upgraded' its not a work of art at all... because it will never truley be finished. to release art is to take a risk, if you can't do that, you're no artist.

you and lucas share a very interesting thing... but it's not reality. the only reality here is that rich people can fuck with poor people, and there is nothing they can do about it... but the day i let someone tell me i'm not alowed to complain about it, will be one truley fucked up state of affairs...

i'm a musician too and i wouldn't pull this bullshit...
get a grip...

This post has been edited by barend: 07 March 2006 - 07:08 PM

[Dorothy]

Hayden Christenson has ended his own career. He's not even acting in any more films.

he doesn't want to be in any more films after his last experience.

Ahem...
Clicky for the future of Mr. Hayden Chrissypants's future.

This post has been edited by Dorothy: 07 March 2006 - 07:34 PM

[barend]

doesn't look like he's leaving in a hurry...

but my point still stands... he was made to look bad in some high profile movies... when i'm sure he's not that bad... even he begged to have many of his takes redone, but lucas said no.

[Jejef Thgaron]

doesn't look like he's leaving in a hurry...

but my point still stands... he was made to look bad in some high profile movies... when i'm sure he's not that bad... even he begged to have many of his takes redone, but lucas said no.

I'm sorry, but as a musician, you should be well aware that art is not a science. There are rules and guidelines to science. Art has no such rules. It is limitless. Art is an aesthetic point of view of the world around us. There is an aesthetic beauty in everything that exists. Just because you can't find beauty or aesthetic value in a film, it doesn't mean other people can't see it.

Hayden Christenson could probably get just about any movie part he wanted. Notice I used the word wanted. Has the PT ruined Samuel L. M. F. Jackson's career? Nope. Has it ruined Natalie Portman's career? Do the Wachowski Brothers or 'V for Vendetta' ring any bells? (And she still looks good with a shaved head!) How about Ewan McGregor? No... but then again, I haven't seen 'The Island', yet. Christopher Lee? Mr. William Wonka, Sr. D.D.S.? Don't even get me started. The man is prolific. He is a giant in the industry and it would take more than a mediocre part in a movie to bring his career down. So why is Hayden having soooo much trouble, from your point of view? It can't be the Star Wars movies. If it was, none of the other actors/actresses would be able to find jobs as quickly and as easily as they have. Hayden wouldn't have found more work in the industry if the PT is as bad for his career as you say it is. My only question is: Why is Michael Bay still making films, after Pearl Harbor?

[barend]

"My only question is: Why is Michael Bay still making films, after Pearl Harbor?"

that's a bloddy good question.

the answer is because holiwood is a dirty whore.

you think i'm turning art into science, well those a-holes are turning into accounting.

lucas seems to think, and thanks largley to his loyal unquestioning fan base, that showing up to work is getting the job done.

as a musician what i am well aware of, is that certain notes played together don't make music. hitting random keys on a piano for an album while every other musician does whatever they want is not music... (unless by pure luck it works)

i assume that as a musician you know how to play an instrument or several. you can't show up to a gig or recording and not know how to play... there a certain things you must do... plugging the guitar into an amp is a nice start... using your left hand to form the chords, strumming the right strings, etc. you can mess around with combos, but just forming the chords without strumming the strings in the right way is going to give you an icomplete and unproffessional sound to say the least...

putting actors in a film to read lines is not enough... you have to tell them what to feel. and re-doing iot until it's right.

do you record music?

if so, are you telling me you use the first recording everytime? even if you fuck up?

i know you're not, becuase if that is the case, i'll never willingly listen to your music.

do you get where i'm comming from?

it's not enough to have an idea, and jot it down without stylizing and working it. there are many elements that need to compliment each other, and there are certain 'chords' and 'scales' that need to be addheared too if one is going for a certain 'sound'...

the same goes for film. or anything else...

accidentally kicking a bucket of pain to spill onto a canvas doesn't make you an artist.






th eother actors all have succesful film careers to back them up, and not enough people cared enough about the quality of these films to judge them...

but hayden was given the wrong motivation, and this is all most people had to judge him on.

[CowboyCurtis]

I'm sorry, but as a musician, you should be well aware that art is not a science. There are rules and guidelines to science. Art has no such rules. It is limitless. Art is an aesthetic point of view of the world around us. There is an aesthetic beauty in everything that exists. Just because you can't find beauty or aesthetic value in a film, it doesn't mean other people can't see it.

Oh cripes, he IS one of THOSE people.

Dude. Good luck with life. You're gonna need it.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Oh cripes, he IS one of THOSE people.

Dude. Good luck with life. You're gonna need it.

What, pray tell, is that supposed to mean? One of THOSE people? An artist? Yes, I am. I don't need luck getting through life, I'm actually doing really good. Thank you for your concern, though.

do you record music?
if so, are you telling me you use the first recording everytime? even if you fuck up?
i know you're not, becuase if that is the case, i'll never willingly listen to your music.
do you get where i'm comming from?

I do record music. Sometimes, the first take is the best take... even if I f*** up. I do get exactly where you're coming from. It also helps to have a dual-core processing computer with ProTools installed and a real nice Soundcraft board to go through. I have access to all of that. For free. I also own a Boss BR-8 so I can lay down scratch tracks at home, if I choose to. I sorta quit the whole playing/singing in a band thing for the time being, but I plan to get back into it soon. I've been pretty busy with packing up and moving, so I barely even have time to pick up one of my guitars. It really sucks, too... just put new strings on my Strat.

It's a good start to have an idea where to go, but sometimes you end up getting a brainfart here or there when you write music that way. I've always found it easier to just play what feels right and go in that direction. Led Zeppelin wrote Stairway To Heaven in the recording studio in about 10 minutes, right before they recorded it. I think the best songs are the ones like that. All out inspiration and nothing more. Stairway was a huge hit, not just back then, but it still is. The classics never die.

[diligent_d]

I can see this thread degenerating before my eyes...

[barend]

sure, admittedly i use the first take 9 times out of ten... but that's because i know what i'm doing and i'm both writer AND performer.
so there's no communication problems...

but sometimes you do something and you think.... hmmmm... that's okaaaaaaaaaayyyy.... but if i threw in these notes it would really tie everything up niceley...

Myself, i use acid i run guitar, bass, keyboards, and vocals through a GT-3, and use a sure58 mic... and my stuff still sounds better that nickleback, but guess who's more famous...

lucas' first takes are unnaceptable but he uses them anyway because he's a hack... a hack with a lot of money, but a hack nevertheless...

[CowboyCurtis]

What, pray tell, is that supposed to mean? One of THOSE people? An artist? Yes, I am. I don't need luck getting through life, I'm actually doing really good. Thank you for your concern, though.

Gee, do you think every artist thinks like you do? I'm one, and I don't even come close to how you conceptualize and magic "logic" pretzel for excusing the crap that is the PT. Stop bringing up the 'artist' and musician aspect. Who cares! Doesn't make you any better than anyone else at judging Lucas' films.

[Despondent]

Pretzel. Mmmmm.

I'm an artist.

So, can we go by majority? People here who hate what GL has done with SW, raise your hand.

People who consider themselves Artists who blah blah the freaking blah, raise your hand. Or reply.

Jejef; you're not going to convince anyone here of anything. Read Jariten's posts to learn how to interact with civility. Not that we always behave, but you're a firepot, dude.

[ion eon]

*raises hand that Lucas really could have done a better job with the prequels, but they were not terrible, or even that bad.*

[barend]

*cuts off said hand*

[ion eon]

*wonders which hand because one is already missing and replaced with a hook according to avatar*