Nitpicking the Deleted Scenes?
#93
Posted 04 December 2005 - 09:22 PM
QUOTE (KurganX @ Dec 1 2005, 04:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can argue the OT trilogy is better because it came first, or has better acting, or more likable characters, a fresher story, whatever you like. But don't argue its superiority based on greater scientific plausibility.
the PT hasa lot less to divert your attention from the scientific factors, i won't deny. the OT never pretented to be sci-fi though... it was 100% fantasy (it was just in space). the PT started forcing sci-ideas to 'justify' it's fantasy elements (e.g.midichlorians) which makes it a sci-fi movie. The act of replacing royalty with the US political system also an attempt to pull it further away from fantasy.
Another large factor is that Star Wars was written less barley 5 years after man first landed on the moon and was inspired by concepts that preceed that historical event. 30 years have now passed since then and expectations are only quite fairly higher.
i'm not denying SW:OT has some utter bullshit elements, thelightsabre being the least beleivable of the lot, but the PT is 30 years after the defining moment of the space race and seems to still be on the 'moon is made of cheese' page.
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#94
Posted 08 December 2005 - 04:01 PM
QUOTE (barend @ Dec 4 2005, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the PT hasa lot less to divert your attention from the scientific factors, i won't deny. the OT never pretented to be sci-fi though... it was 100% fantasy (it was just in space). the PT started forcing sci-ideas to 'justify' it's fantasy elements (e.g.midichlorians) which makes it a sci-fi movie. The act of replacing royalty with the US political system also an attempt to pull it further away from fantasy.
Another large factor is that Star Wars was written less barley 5 years after man first landed on the moon and was inspired by concepts that preceed that historical event. 30 years have now passed since then and expectations are only quite fairly higher.
Another large factor is that Star Wars was written less barley 5 years after man first landed on the moon and was inspired by concepts that preceed that historical event. 30 years have now passed since then and expectations are only quite fairly higher.
The US moon landing was in '69, so 8 years later... and yes SW was based on pulp sci fi action serials, b-movies and the like that were chock full of bad science, much of which could be excused since we really didn't know as much as we do know. But still...
Had the PT "revised" much of the scientific nonesense of Star Wars, it would have broken continuity badly, wouldn't it have? Though I can't think of any specific examples of things that "worked" due to gaps in understanding in 1977-1983 that we now know to be bunk. The public at large may be ignorant, but either way the SW films have always been unscientific (like most sci fi).
The scientific explanation for things existed in the original movies too. They talk about light speed, lasers, parsecs, super novas, stars & galaxies, planets, etc. Hyper space travel isn't magic, it's based on technology. They've got medical droids and bacta, and all sorts of things.
About the only reason criticism here is that people preferred the force to be an "Energy Field" that certain people could detect somehow we didn't know how, vs. the Energy Field was detectable by people with lots of microorganisms in their blood.
So if they deleted all references to midichlorians, what else would there be for folks to complain about? It'd be too radical a change to suddenly make the ships stop banking turns, make everything silent in space and no big fiery explosions, making space travel take months or years, making it so there were no humanoid aliens, etc.
QUOTE
i'm not denying SW:OT has some utter bullshit elements, thelightsabre being the least beleivable of the lot, but the PT is 30 years after the defining moment of the space race and seems to still be on the 'moon is made of cheese' page.
Yeah, but again, if it had made itself more realistic, it would have broken the feel and continuity with the original movies even more. And would fans have accepted that?
Also, to the folks who say that Star Wars was "pure fantasy" and not sci fi are missing the boat. There's lots of scientifically unrealistic sci fi out there, and it's Sci Fi. "Fantasy" is a goofy term, because it really applies to ALL FICTION. Fantasy vs. reality. However people have stereotyped the term in the last 50 years to apply basically to Lord of the Rings ripoffs.
Star Wars has as much sci fi elements as most any other sci fi out there. That it takes place in the past, in another galaxy, or has religious themes does not exclude it from the proper label of sci fi.
And finally, the political elements in the prequels are quite blatant yes, but recall that Lucas put plenty of that crap into the OT movies. Sure he wasn't quite so heavy handed about it, but he freely admitted being inspired by the Nixon presidency and the Vietnam War when he created the Rebellion, the Ewoks, and the Emperor, among other things. Even the ending ceremony of ANH is based on "Triumph of the Will" (and before you say it, no I'm not saying that Lucas is a Nazi supporter or that he intended the Rebels to be Nazis... he actually slipped on the DVD commentary and called the Imperials in ESB "Nazis"!... no rather he just used the scene because Triumph of the Will is acknowledged for its contribution to cinematography, even if it was a propaganda film for Hitler's regime... sort of like how Birth of the Nation has historical value, even though it's a propaganda film for the KKK).
This post has been edited by KurganX: 08 December 2005 - 04:07 PM
#95
Posted 08 December 2005 - 06:50 PM
fisrtly, 1977 is 8 years after 1969. 1977 is the year star wars was released, as in already made, he didn't write the year after he filmed it (like he does now ) he sat on it for a bit...
but that's not really important.
what's important is that he didn't have to retract scientificly implausable standards set by the OT, but he really shouldn't have introduced more.
hover and force-feild technology is not tantamount to lava surfing and freshwater planetcore rivers. THAT IS SOMETHING OF UTTER NONSENSE and makes the whole premise of these six movies less plausible than they need to be...
i mean, sure let's keep up the fantasy elements, but while we're not relying on 'magic' (as to many attempts have been made to crush the magic) to solve our problems let's not delve deeper into plausiblability-depravity. we can accept some things but let's not overburdon the audience with stretching the imagination so thin you can see through it.
that kind of suspended disbelief is like leaving the ground, you can ask your audience to jump over certain things on the journey but not to fly the whole damn way.
until it's legal to print movie ticket stubbs on the kind of paper you're ment to put under your tongue, one should not expect an audience to happily accept so much responsibilty. I mean muscicians don't skip notes and say 'oh well, you know what notes were meant to be there'
but that's not really important.
what's important is that he didn't have to retract scientificly implausable standards set by the OT, but he really shouldn't have introduced more.
hover and force-feild technology is not tantamount to lava surfing and freshwater planetcore rivers. THAT IS SOMETHING OF UTTER NONSENSE and makes the whole premise of these six movies less plausible than they need to be...
i mean, sure let's keep up the fantasy elements, but while we're not relying on 'magic' (as to many attempts have been made to crush the magic) to solve our problems let's not delve deeper into plausiblability-depravity. we can accept some things but let's not overburdon the audience with stretching the imagination so thin you can see through it.
that kind of suspended disbelief is like leaving the ground, you can ask your audience to jump over certain things on the journey but not to fly the whole damn way.
until it's legal to print movie ticket stubbs on the kind of paper you're ment to put under your tongue, one should not expect an audience to happily accept so much responsibilty. I mean muscicians don't skip notes and say 'oh well, you know what notes were meant to be there'
>>The Adventures of Heinrich Von Bastard<< (A Web Comic)
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Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
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#96
Posted 09 December 2005 - 07:25 PM
I'm staying out of this one...
#98
Posted 11 December 2005 - 07:41 PM
drug references?
>>The Adventures of Heinrich Von Bastard<< (A Web Comic)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#99
Posted 11 December 2005 - 08:56 PM
QUOTE (barend @ Dec 8 2005, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
until it's legal to print movie ticket stubbs on the kind of paper you're ment to put under your tongue, one should not expect an audience to happily accept so much responsibilty. I mean muscicians don't skip notes and say 'oh well, you know what notes were meant to be there'
#100
Posted 06 January 2006 - 01:39 PM
I dont know who else is with me on this one....but I think they should have just handed over the whole series and creative licenses to BioWare after the first KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC game came out.
That was in 2003. We could have been sparred that horrible film known as episode III and instead left with something enjoyable
That was in 2003. We could have been sparred that horrible film known as episode III and instead left with something enjoyable