[Revan-47]

THe main characters in the story were origionally going to be hobbit like people.

[WalkingCarpet]

the Emperor, (now arguably one of the greatest screen villains of all time)

Sorry, got to disagree with you on this point.

ESB shrouded the Emperor in mystery, ROTJ gave him a cold, calm exterior which gradually expanded to torturous, yet calculated, evil. Very effective and easily one of the truly classic aspects of the "weakest OT episode".

ROTS turned him into a pantomime villain, who was, to quote Alfred Lord Tennyson "a bit of an arse".

[jariten]

I was reffering to im across the 5 he was in (and the one he was mentioned in I suppose), but hes great in 1 2 and 3. Dance puppets!!

[diligent_d]

Minor things are out of place, but they're so minor I’d be surprised if anyone except the "loyal fanbase" even recognized them.

That's the whole point: maybe to people who don't remember the old movies, the shit is minor. But to people who have followed and been fans of the OT, the plot holes are pretty glaring. But then by saying what you said above, you yourself just pretty succinctly illustrated the whole point and goal of the new movies - that they were indeed made to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Which is too bad. Some us expected more.

This post has been edited by diligent_d: 25 November 2005 - 02:04 PM

[Revan-47]

Actually, ive been watching the origional version of star wars all of my life. ive probable seen those about a couple hundred times. and i never noticed or cared about plotholes until i read the nitpicks. THe only thing that has ever really pissed me off is when he changed things in the OT. For instance, greedo shooting first. actually that is the only scene change that made me mad.

[jariten]

That's the whole point: maybe to people who don't remember the old movies, the shit is minor. But to people who have followed and been fans of the OT, the plot holes are pretty glaring. But then by saying what you said above, you yourself just pretty succinctly illustrated the whole point and goal of the new movies - that they were indeed made to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Which is too bad. Some us expected more.

The point of my post was to show that the diehards only focus on the tinest, most insignificant discrepancies and totally ignore the major themes that Lucas suceeded in pulling off across the two trilogies.

"WHY DOESN'T LARS RECOGNISE C-3PO???!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE TOYS I PLAYED WITH WHEN I WAS 7? U OWE ME LUCA$$$$$$$111111111111111111111"

"But don't you feel that Vaders character has become　infinatly more..."

"ROOOOOOOARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DID IT TAKE THEM 20 YEARS TO BUILD THE DEATH STAR?????????? U RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!!!!!"

Most of the crap I hear is like that, beyond pointless. Totally ignoring the bigger picture.

But then by saying what you said above, you yourself just pretty succinctly illustrated the whole point and goal of the new movies - that they were indeed made to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

explain (?)

[Revan-47]

You all should read some of the posts on theforce.net. Now they truly respect the PT. I was reading a thread about the greatness of the fireplace scene in AotC. ABout how padme's dress was foreshadowing her death. their lines "i cant breath" if we follow our thoughts through to conclusion it will take us to a place we cannot go" "it will destroy us" "you are asking me to be rational, and that is something i cannot do" all of those are foreshadowing RotS. George lucas designed her costume for that scene, the only one he did design. look closely, that scarf around her neck looks exactly like a hand choking her. Maybe george isnt such an idiot.

[diligent_d]

The point of my post was to show that the diehards only focus on the tinest, most insignificant discrepancies and totally ignore the major themes that Lucas suceeded in pulling off across the two trilogies.

They aren't tiny. Tiny to some, not tiny to others. They were easily avoidable mistakes - that's the damn point. Why weren't they avoided?

"WHY DOESN'T LARS RECOGNISE C-3PO???!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE TOYS I PLAYED WITH WHEN I WAS 7? U OWE ME LUCA$$$$$$$111111111111111111111"

"But don't you feel that Vaders character has become　infinatly more..."

"ROOOOOOOARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DID IT TAKE THEM 20 YEARS TO BUILD THE DEATH STAR?????????? U RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!!!!!"

Yeah that's a real accurate description of anyone who doesn't like the PT, isn't it? You think the big picture is lost upon everyone who criticizes these pictures?? That we don't understand the entire overall story arcs and themes because we also demand consistency in the details? That's pretty foolish, if you do. I will submit that most people here do in fact know the big picture - but regardless, it still just pisses them off that films felt rushed and inconsistent with the OT. If you feel the need to sink into some off-base and immature psychological conjectures of why people bash the PT, then you're unfit to argue about this with. Moving on.

[quote]explain (?)quote]

Means what it says. Don't know how better I can put it.

[jariten]

Yeah that's a real accurate description of anyone who doesn't like the PT, isn't it? You think the big picture is lost upon everyone who criticizes these pictures??

I wasn't talking about any of the chefelf crew, thats why I come here. I didnt say anything about that being an accruate description of non-PT fans either. Its just after years of hearing the same thing elsewhere, with zero attempt to assess what I consider Lucas got right with this thing, you start to loose patience. Although I know you cant see this where the PT is concerned, but think of some other movies/books/music you like, i'm sure you'll be able to emphasise with me on some level. I mean, surely you've heard garbage ranting like that from both sides of the prequel fence?

I never said there wasn't errors in the bridge between trilogies, only that, taken with how I think the saga has been improved, they barely warrant considering. im personally allowing the artist just a little bit of leway here.

and i'm serious about explaining yourself. You just kind of said something was, without explaining why.

and...

If you feel the need to sink into some off-base and immature

immature, maybe. It was not offbase.

You all should read some of the posts on theforce.net.

circa TPM I used the read those boards. Its mostly kids, so theres not much you can do there. Its nice to see a lot of the first timers to SW getting the same kick out of the PT that I got out of the OT.

This post has been edited by jariten: 25 November 2005 - 08:16 PM

[Revan-47]

Whats cool is that they are getting a kick out of all the movies together. Thats whats nice to see.

[barend]

ALright... someone just gave me the DVD of ROTS...

WTF? it's like you people (yes i said 'you people') who like the PT want me to be a part of your sick community so badly that your actually pushing it on me now.

but i'm glad because seeing the deleted scenes confirmed what my boss said.

bashers and gushers will both disagree so i guess i'm starting a new division of Star wars geek here...

the deleted scenes while flawed and full of holes were, for most part, a tradgedy to be ommited.

i'll will start a new thread with my own indepth study of what happened as there has been nothing in the PT that has annoyed me more than what was left out of ep3.

these scenes would have made it a much better film.

for i'd rather see Mon mothma starting the rebellion than how greedo was a prick when he was four, or how bobba fett inherrited a cool ship and followed in his fathers footsteps and for no reason at all had something to do with the clones.

this, jarriten, is the bigger picture if ever there was one. my whole problem with the PT and best argument against it has been served to me on a silver platter by Lucas himself in his DVD and given to me by a prequel gusher. THIS is poetry in motion and when i make my post i shall need a cigar...

it's the intros to the deleted scenes by Lucas and ricky "martin" McCallum that make this feature so awsome.

because for once and all, their rolls are revealed.
Lucas is the emporer and McCallum is Darth Vader.

for each scene it's like:
Lucas: "basically i took this scene out because it had too much story in it. and when you have to make it fit a certain time frame there are more important things to include."
McCallum: "I begged lucas to keep this scene, because it ties in with the OT"

Ricky's got this whole last-instalment-deathbed-redemption thing going on...

it's really quite facinating to watch.

i will elaborate soon.

[Revan-47]

No need to. Its the same for poor nick gilliard. He would have made the fights way cooler without george going" hey nick, lets put this droid floating in to totally distract people from anakin and obi wan. LEts not make this classic by having them by themselves, but by putting dopy lava droids in the middle of them. Master Jar Jar will like that, i mean....

[barend]

what's worse is that in one of the other featurettes GL says he had to come up with a reason for them to end up on mustafar as one of his writting challanges.

my question being... WHY DID THEY HAVE TO BE ON A WHOLE PLANET OF LAVA AT ALL????!!!!?

[KurganX]

what's worse is that in one of the other featurettes GL says he had to come up with a reason for them to end up on mustafar as one of his writting challanges.

my question being... WHY DID THEY HAVE TO BE ON A WHOLE PLANET OF LAVA AT ALL????!!!!?

Early concept art for ROTJ showed the Emperor's throne room being in some kind of volcanic cavern surrounded by some lava. I guess he was going for the Emperor = Devil symbolism. There's also the "molten pit" that Vader is said to have "crawled out of" in the ROTJ novelisation, and the references to the lava crawling up his back (either in the ESB novel or the ROTJ novel I can't remember, it's been too long).

True, like many other items in the novels but not mentioned onscreen (like Owen being Obi-Wan's brother; or Jabba being described alternately as a scarred & shaggy creature or having "lost all his hair" to disease; or Palpatine being the "president" of the Republic rather than Chancellor before he became Emperor) he could simply have changed it, but I think he wanted to retain this part of his "original vision" (at least as it existed in the 1980's).

And yes, he didn't have to make the entire planet volcanic. Actually as far as the various planets we've seen that are all one climate, the volcanic planet is probably one of the more realistic. What's odd of course is why there are structures there.. what exactly are they doing? According to the ROTS DVD commentary they are "testing the lava and collecting the energy from it" (says Lucas). Rick McCallum or some other production guys say that they were thinking the lava was being collected and "refined" to get the minerals, while in production. They obviously just really wanted a volcanic planet with lots of hellish lava to have the final battle in (and they probably saw the success of LOTR: Return of the King!) and had to come up with the excuse to justify it.

The basic idea since the 1980's was that when Obi-Wan and Vader fought, Vader somehow fell into some lava... Obi-Wan left him for dead, but he barely survived and was put into the iron lung as a consequence. Just how they were going to finally realize it was up to our imagination until now.

This post has been edited by KurganX: 28 November 2005 - 01:24 AM

[Revan-47]

why did the planet have to have a purpose? couldnt they have just hidden the separatist leader's there. who would expect to find them on a pointless planet of lava?