[jariten]

Being black and educated in Canada is probably the best move one can make. You're garunteed a job because we have pretty vicious quotas to fill here

I read a statement almost exactly like that in a little leaflet that I got through my door during the last election. It was from the local branch office of the BNP (British Nationalist Party). There were no statistics of any kind there either. Just a cry to preserve “White Britain” against this fearmongering idea that minority groups have it easy really, they’re stealing all ours jobs etc. etc. blah blah. If you heavily bias your talk with words like “vicious”, people are going to read between the lines (maybe why the girl got upset?).

p.s I'm not implying that you'd be at home with the BNP, I was just making an observation.

[Jordan]

Who said anything about stealing jobs? Who the hell are the BMP's?

Are you people saying that equal op's does not benifit minorities? What the hell is the point of having it? I thought that was the whole reason, to benefit minorities, to ensure them that they will not get discriminated against.

Am I taking crazy pills? Why do they have this thing around if it apparently is racist to talk about it or even acknowledge it's existence.

I ask you why do they have it if not to benefit minorities?

This post has been edited by Jordan: 25 October 2005 - 02:25 AM

[Zatoichi]

Something I've noticed reading through the past couple of pages is that a few people are using three words interchangably. They are racism, prejudice, and discrimination.

Racism is the belief that one race is better than all of the rest. By itself it really can't affect anything, because it is not an action.

Prejudice is a negative attitude toward an entire category of people. Once again, by itself it really can't affect anything, because it is not an action.

Discrimination is the denial of opportunities and equal rights to individuals because of prejudice or for other arbitary reasons. This is the actual action, and the only thing that is actually "wrong".

Yes, one thing leads to another, but they are not the same. So if you hope to debate intelligently, at least try to know what you are saying.

[barend]

awsome post dude! and about time too..

next class:

"Polictal correctness" and getting to know your continents.

Algeria, Egypt, Morrocco, Lybia = AFRICA
India, Russia (most of), Shri Lanka, Pakistan, Afganistan, = ASIA
Australia = AUSTRALIA
Canada = AMERICA (North)

now with that out of the way, and the rascism/prejudice/discrimination thing out of the way...

i don't want to see any more political fuck ups!!!

[Slade]

Jordan: One problem is that first you said that blacks are guaranteed jobs due to affirmative action, and then you said that they need to be qualified too. That's a little contradictory. And your tone doesn't help either. I understand that your intent wasn't what some people took it as, but I can see how they might see it differently.

Equal opportunity is not taking into account race and gender during the hiring process.

Affirmative action is taking race or gender into account in many areas where people were discriminated against to give the opportunities to the disenfranchised so that it can be pushed closer to and eventually made fully equal.

[WalkingCarpet]

But in the qualification rounds for the 2010 World Cup, Israel will be competing in the European section and Australia will be in the Asian Qualifying groups.

Are you telling me FIFA are wrong, because in that case everything I know to be right and just will fall down around me and I'll have no option but to physically re-arrange the continents myself.

New Zealand will be placed in South America next to Colombia, which will be re-named Old Zealand. All 50 US states will disband and join other countries (I think I'll give California to Canada, because they both start with Ca) and the UK will be relocated to the Caribbean. Except Birmingham, that will be moved to Germany.

[Slade]

Yes, and Google will own everything and link the world up in a big utopia of mass communication by 2014, ruining privatization and promoting groupthink and popularity over accuracy.

[civilian_number_two]

Thanks for all that you said, Jen. I blush.

We have racial- and gender-based hiring incentives (not quotas) in some areas of employment in Canadian government, like civil service jobs and such, but there is no, and I mean zero, incentive for private companies to employ any affirmative action. You can hire and promote as you see fit, and only obvious and blatant abuse would ever be noticed. And if so, it would be noticed by the employee, who would cry foul and launch a civil lawsuit. Also, in civil service, while organizations like the Police and emergency services try to have their roster represent the commnity (where most physical jobs would rather favor men), the top jobs are still generally held by white men.

The best example I can cite to say that there is no "vicious" legislated discrimination is a local restaurant chain called the Cactus Club. I love the place, but it's ridiculous. No one better try telling me they have any sort of government-or socially-enforced quota system in Canada after eating at that place. The food is a little above average for casual dining, and the waitresses, 100% of them, have D-cup breasts and dress like expensive whores. These are NOT, by the way, D-cup at the cost of big asses. These are classic hotties, wannabe actresses under the age of 24, dressed to the nines with hair right out of the salon, and I have never seen a career last long enough for a gal to put on any weight. I swear they must ask for a head shot before you get an interview, and they MUST be turning away or firing gals who have a little weight on them. Seriously, J, you ever eat there? Try getting a job there as an uneducated, middle-aged black man!!!! On the other hand, try applying, and then sue them when you don't get the job!!!

In the US the best example that there is no real Affirmative Action, that traditional biases and the Network system reign supreme, is the US Presidency. Do you think Dubya would have earned the support of the Republican party, with his middle-class grades, his felonies, his history of drug and alcohol use, and his poor military service, if he were Black?

[Zatoichi]

barend, that was a joke right? (fucker I'm only kiddin)
A better term is ________ awareness (can't remember what the underlined bit, and I was going for actual correctness)

Civ, Where did you say this restaraunt chain again. Maybe I could be shallow and try to get a date. Or just make bad jokes.

Ha, I'd bet an outstanding black candadite couldn't get the job (unlike in 24). Stupid US of America.

[barend]

i was just jumping on the educational bandwagon.

i'm sick of the PC blemishes when it comes to nations and continents.
i put that post there to prevent any wasted posts...

[Jordan]

Ok I used the wrong word- vicious and quota. Every time people discuss affirmative action or equal op's, some one always has to say "they don't the jobs for being black, but for being who they are-a skilled,productive worker".

Great, you're probably right too. Then what's the point of equal oppurtunites? How can you enforce it? How can you tell if some company is discriminating? and finally what's the point of having it if it doesn't do anything?

[Zatoichi]

I can only answer your last question, it looks good.

[Spoon Poetic]

Civ, your "Cactus Club" sounds like our "Hooters." At least ours is open with its policy to only hire hot chicks with double-D's. I have a friend who was curious, so she went to apply for a waitressing job. She's beautiful, she's totally qualified for a freaking waitress job, and there's no blemishes on her record. They turned her away because her boobs were too small. She's a C-cup. All the waitresses have to wear tiny little white tee-shirts that often get pitchers of ice water dumped on them, and the food isn't that great. You only go there for... the hooters. GET IT?!?!?

As far as racial quotas, affirmative action, and the like--as horrible as it is to even need to have them, I can say that it--or something like it--does need to be implemented in some areas. Such as the South. Racism is still so rampant here in many areas that there needs to be something in place to keep the discrimination in check. Also, just because of the nature of people, even without discrimination, people tend to just group themselves; and I believe people need to experience diversity. For example, if colleges around here weren't actively trying to recruit people from different countries and races and religions, we'd end up with all the black students at these particular colleges, all the white Christian students at these colleges, etc.

The high schools are already segregated enough, because of this people-grouping (whether by their own choice or other people's)--not only do people of each race tend to live in the same areas and so are zoned into the segregation (where I am, kids refer to certain high schools as "the ghetto school," [because it is made up of mostly blacks and as a result of discriminatory budgeting, is quite run-down] "the 'Spic' school," "the Brown school" [a "brown" refers to someone from India/Pakistan], etc.); but also within the schools, kids segregate themselves. All the "Browns" stick together, all the Colombian kids stick together, all the black kids stick together, all the Mexican kids stick together, and when they have the majority, all the white kids reign supreme.

So if colleges weren't actively trying to diversify, no one would ever experience any diversity. Everyone would stay in their little race groups, and never learn anything about anyone different from them, except from people that are like them. This spreads the ignorance, and leads to further racism, prejudice, and discrimination for the future.

But as it stands, where I am, at least, there is an attempt on diversity, and it is helping. I think it will get better in the future. Granted, I believe something better could be done, but I sure couldn't think of anything when I tried--unless we were to just kill off humanity. I don't really think there is a "solution" to the problem of racism and discrimination. Someone is always going to want to feel like they're better than someone else, and race is one of the easier characteristics to pick out and say, that's different than me, so I must be better because of it.

I don't really remember what point I was trying to make anymore... I tend to go off on tangents. Sorry.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 27 October 2005 - 12:23 AM

[Jordan]

Cactus club has normal looking girls. The one in Yale town and west van has pretty hostessess, but nothing like the big boob broads at hooters.

Sure they're hot. Vancouver has ton's of those joints. Have you ever been to mainland street? That oyster/lobster house is filled with good looking men behind the counter. All of them have muscles and chiselled chins.

But also within the schools, kids segregate themselves

That's totally normal. My high school had the same thing. All the chi's stayed in their area. All the hindu's and persians stayed in their spots. ANd all the white kids chilled with one another. We had a few asians in our group and one black guy, but all of them were like 3rd generation Canadians.

Right now my friends are diverse, but many of them came through post secondary. Every one is so freaked out 1st semester that finding any one to chill with is good enough.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 27 October 2005 - 12:42 AM

[Spoon Poetic]

I know it's normal; not a trait only of the South or anything--I was just giving an example of why stuff like "racial quotas" can be beneficial: to expose people to diversity... Like I said, I got off on tangents.