[StarWarsIsUs]

I am apathetic towards the idea of God. I stated in another thread, that if there was one, he would be evil. I even explained why I thought this.

[StarWarsIsUs]

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/god.html

Go to that site, my friends. It has an essay about how an evil god, would be way more logical than a good god.

[azryan]

StarWarsIsUs,

“-I consider myself a Satanist (Humanist, Nihilist),-“

Those are three different things.

Satan as a character comes from a book. He’s a fallen angel.

A lesser ‘god’ under the larger god in heaven. All superhuman beings, angels, god the Father, god’s kid Yeshua (or Joshua or the totally mistranslated name Jesus), and god the holy spirit (mistranslated as a being when it actually just meant 'holy breath’ and why there’s no stories of the holy spirit as a character doing anything ‘cept flowing into people like air/breath).

A Humanist/Rationalist understands that the bible is irrational, filled with massive amounts of contradictions, zero proof of any god’s actually existing, and known historical/scientific evidence destroys even the chance that many key bible events ever possibly happened.

But a Humanist doesn’t rely on ‘faith’ which is a 'belief devoid of reason'.

Why christians, etc... say "I can't prove god exists, I just have 'faith' he/it/she/they does.'

The Rationalist/Humanist rely on inherent human rationality and logic to view the natural world as best they can. The scientific approach to viewing things.

This type of rational person would not also follow a fictional character from a collection of stories (the bible).

A Nihilist
-An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
-A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.-
-A delusion, experienced in some mental disorders, that the world or one's mind, body, or self does not exist.-“

Basically.... they’re crazy. But more importantly it’s clearly neither a Humanist nor Satanist.

You are NOT all three of these things.
It doesn’t appear that you’re even any of these things though.

Plus you say you this all also follows the ‘Sith religion’?

Seeing as the Sith are just lucas’s invention of bad guys.... I’m sorry but it’s just plain silly to think this is a religion.

More-so than all other religions which are also man-made and fictional but at least they claim to be real.
This one dates to a dork filmmaker who made action movies.

At best it’s a philosophy and one lucas certainly didn’t detail to any significant extent at all in his 6 Star Wars films. The ‘devil’ as you might be fond to think of... is in the details. There are next to none in lucas's Sith writings.

“-which follows closely to some of the precepts of being Sith in the movies: All things are born from darkness, and all things can trace their roots to carnal desire.-“

That’s not in any Star Wars films.

“-Even light itself is birthed from the darkness... darkness is everywhere... light is an illusion... darkness fills all space and time, and there is NO WHERE that darkness cannot go. Nowhere.-“

That’s a totally irrational philosophy. I don’t see you actually following it either on this forum.
Oh wait... maybe I do....

“-Good cannot exist without evil. Know why? Good is a version of evil.-“

'Good is a version of evil' is not an explanation to anything.

Good and Evil are both simply words in our language that different people assign different meanings to. Typically ‘evil’ is used by people in a religious context to just mean ‘bad’.

Good/bad just being opinions.

Murder? Most of the opinion that it’s ‘bad’.
Most might also say ‘evil’ since most are religious and they like using the word 'evil'. Sounds stronger to 'em.

The acting in the SW prequels? Most here would also say ‘bad’.
Less would say ‘evil’ but just choices of language.

“-Love, is a category of good... we love people because we deep down, want them fully as our own.-“

‘Love’-depends on the definition of which there are many.

“-We think we OWN them.-“

If you consciously think you ‘own’ someone then it’s not ‘deep down’ inside -implying a subconscious feeling.

You contradict youself as you do with your claim to being multiple contradictory religions/belief systems.

And most people do not think they ‘own’ other people consciously or subconsciously.

“-Jedi is a religion. Religion cannot be confined in a box. There could be a religion of one or two people. Its a belief system. Jediism is a belief system.-“

Again... the word ‘religion’ has it’s own list of definitions giving it meaning.

Different people define it in diff ways.

Cult means religion but many people consider it to mean 'fake religion.' or 'wrong' because it's not their religion, or 'religion of crackpots', etc....

The way you define it can be one of the many ways to define religion, BUT it’s just not how most people define it at all.

By your definition kids believing in Santa follow the Santa Religion without knowing it. To most people they’d call that silly and laugh at the thought.

Following the belief of a modern cheesy blatantly fictional MOVIE is not a religion to most people.

Now just because ‘most’ people believe something doesn’t make it true of course.
Most people believe in supernatural deities and none of them are real but you have to think to yourself....

If you deny the typical definition of the word ‘religion’ that most people have, then you simply don’t make any sense to anyone.
And without communication it’s like having a language all your own.

Which you 'could' have and it could be ‘defined’ as a real ‘language’.
To everyone but you though it’d simply be crazy gibberish.

I suggest you look up Rationalist/Humanist and take a stab at logic and reason for your next belief system.

I’d suggest everyone in the world do that but I can only dream.

This post has been edited by azryan: 19 May 2005 - 08:38 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

Satan as a character comes from a book. He’s a fallen angel.

A lesser ‘god’ under the larger god in heaven. All superhuman beings, angels, god the Father, god’s kid Yeshua (or Joshua or the totally mistranslated name Jesus), and god the holy spirit (mistranslated as a being when it actually just meant 'holy breath’ and why there’s no stories of the holy spirit as a character doing anything ‘cept flowing into people like air/breath).

A Humanist/Rationalist understands that the bible is irrational, filled with massive amounts of contradictions, zero proof of any god’s actually existing, and known historical/scientific evidence destroys even the chance that many key bible events ever possibly happened.

But a Humanist doesn’t rely on ‘faith’ which is a 'belief devoid of reason'.

Why christians, etc... say "I can't prove god exists, I just have 'faith' he/it/she/they does.'

The Rationalist/Humanist rely on inherent human rationality and logic to view the natural world as best they can. The scientific approach to viewing things.

This type of rational person would not also follow a fictional character from a collection of stories (the bible).

Azryan, I suggest that you do studying on the works of Anton LaVey. SATAN IS A SYMBOL OF CARNAL DESIRE! THE BEAST WITHIN US ALL, THAT SHOULDN'T BE EXORCISED, BUT EXERCISED! A SYMBOL OF THE DARK REALITY WE ALL LIVE IN!

There, I have destroyed that argument of yours.


STUDY.

A Nihilist
-An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
-A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.-
-A delusion, experienced in some mental disorders, that the world or one's mind, body, or self does not exist.-“

Basically.... they’re crazy. But more importantly it’s clearly neither a Humanist nor Satanist.

You are NOT all three of these things.
It doesn’t appear that you’re even any of these things though.

I NEVER SAID I WAS ALL THREE OF THESE THINGS! I am the type of nihilist that SEES NO PURPOSE IN LIFE. THERE IS NO DEEPER MEANING TO THE THINGS AROUND US!

There is another deadly blow to your argument!

Seeing as the Sith are just lucas’s invention of bad guys.... I’m sorry but it’s just plain silly to think this is a religion.

More-so than all other religions which are also man-made and fictional but at least they claim to be real.
This one dates to a dork filmmaker who made action movies.

At best it’s a philosophy and one lucas certainly didn’t detail to any significant extent at all in his 6 Star Wars films. The ‘devil’ as you might be fond to think of... is in the details. There are next to none in lucas's Sith writings.

“-which follows closely to some of the precepts of being Sith in the movies: All things are born from darkness, and all things can trace their roots to carnal desire.-“

That’s not in any Star Wars films.

“-Even light itself is birthed from the darkness... darkness is everywhere... light is an illusion... darkness fills all space and time, and there is NO WHERE that darkness cannot go. Nowhere.-“

That’s a totally irrational philosophy. I don’t see you actually following it either on this forum.
Oh wait... maybe I do....

“-Good cannot exist without evil. Know why? Good is a version of evil.-“

'Good is a version of evil' is not an explanation to anything.

Good and Evil are both simply words in our language that different people assign different meanings to. Typically ‘evil’ is used by people in a religious context to just mean ‘bad’.

Good/bad just being opinions.

Murder? Most of the opinion that it’s ‘bad’.
Most might also say ‘evil’ since most are religious and they like using the word 'evil'. Sounds stronger to 'em.

The acting in the SW prequels? Most here would also say ‘bad’.
Less would say ‘evil’ but just choices of language.

“-Love, is a category of good... we love people because we deep down, want them fully as our own.-“

‘Love’-depends on the definition of which there are many.

“-We think we OWN them.-“

If you consciously think you ‘own’ someone then it’s not ‘deep down’ inside -implying a subconscious feeling.

You contradict youself as you do with your claim to being multiple contradictory religions/belief systems.

And most people do not think they ‘own’ other people consciously or subconsciously.

“-Jedi is a religion. Religion cannot be confined in a box. There could be a religion of one or two people. Its a belief system. Jediism is a belief system.-“

Again... the word ‘religion’ has it’s own list of definitions giving it meaning.

Different people define it in diff ways.

Cult means religion but many people consider it to mean 'fake religion.' or 'wrong' because it's not their religion, or 'religion of crackpots', etc....

The way you define it can be one of the many ways to define religion, BUT it’s just not how most people define it at all.

By your definition kids believing in Santa follow the Santa Religion without knowing it. To most people they’d call that silly and laugh at the thought.

Following the belief of a modern cheesy blatantly fictional MOVIE is not a religion to most people.

Now just because ‘most’ people believe something doesn’t make it true of course.
Most people believe in supernatural deities and none of them are real but you have to think to yourself....

If you deny the typical definition of the word ‘religion’ that most people have, then you simply don’t make any sense to anyone.
And without communication it’s like having a language all your own.

Which you 'could' have and it could be ‘defined’ as a real ‘language’.
To everyone but you though it’d simply be crazy gibberish.

I suggest you look up Rationalist/Humanist and take a stab at logic and reason for your next belief system.

I’d suggest everyone in the world do that but I can only dream.

I NEVER SAID I FOLLOW THE SITH BELIEF! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? You make a big long post, and do not read all of what I say. You cannot use my words against me. Instead, I am using yours, against you. And it is working. I am destroying you with every passing word. I said I follow a belief system SIMILAR TO WHAT THE SITH BELIEVE IN THE MOVIES. I DON'T FOLLOW SITHISM! THE SITH BELIEVE THAT HATRED IS THE KEY TO POWER. I believe that too. I was stating in context of Jediism, that Satanism (my religion), is similar to the opposite there of.





I never wanted to destroy you, and all that you stood for. But I have, fool. I will continue to stand for my cause. I destroyed you in a few sentences... I am superior to you. Can't you see that? You do not read what I say... and it was the destruction of you... and all you stood for.

[azryan]

You shouldn't bother to repost all I wrote if you're not addressing it all. That was totally pointless.

"-Azryan, I suggest that you do studying on the works of Anton LaVey.-"

I'll get right on that. It sounds like it makes a lot of sense. Wait... I mean it sounds like a bucket of crazy. No thanks.

"-SATAN IS A SYMBOL OF CARNAL DESIRE! THE BEAST WITHIN US ALL, THAT SHOULDN'T BE EXORCISED, BUT EXERCISED! A SYMBOL OF THE DARK REALITY WE ALL LIVE IN!-"

This is what you can come up with after you've 'studied' this dude? Weak.
But your use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points does make for an extra super mega strong arguement.

"-There, I have destroyed that argument of yours.-"

What arguement? I thought you believe that you don't exist? That nothing exists. Kinda doesn't make sense that 'you' can 'believe' that since those are things that relate to 'existence' but that was part of my arguement.

"-I NEVER SAID I WAS ALL THREE OF THESE THINGS!-"

Uh... yes you did. You wrote-

"-I consider myself a Satanist (Humanist, Nihilist),-“

That’s called me proving you’re wrong.

"-I NEVER SAID I FOLLOW THE SITH BELIEF! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?-"

Well... I guess my problem here is that I'm having trouble making you understand simple concepts as you seem to be under the control of a demented belief system that yells a lot.

You said -"-which follows closely to some of the precepts of being Sith in the movies-“

That was you saying it’s almost the same thing. That’s how I meant it when I wrote that you follow the Sith crap.

“-You cannot use my words against me.-“

Actually I can and have.

“-Instead, I am using yours, against you. And it is working. I am destroying you with every passing word.-“

Oh yes. Certainly. I think everyone here can see that.

"-I am the type of nihilist that SEES NO PURPOSE IN LIFE.-"

There's no 'inherent' purpose in life. Meaning that we are born without a meaning. We get to grow up and decide for ourselves what we want to do in life and what our life should mean.
That's called freedom and it's bad ass.

As you worded it though you don't have any meaning in your life which means that in all the time you've been alive you haven't figured out what to do with yourself -other than post on Star Wars forums.

Give thinking about what you want your life to mean a try. You might come up with something good that makes you happy and hopefully doesn't involve hurting other people or killing animals in rituals or anything.

“-I never wanted to destroy you, and all that you stood for.-“

Go nerd power huh? You got me dork. And you made me cry too. That’s really out of line heh.

“-THE SITH BELIEVE THAT HATRED IS THE KEY TO POWER. I believe that too.-“

There is certainly great hatred and power in your post. I do feel it dorko. As I do from your nerdy avatar pic of that slit from Clueless.

Clueless for your avatar? Ironic.

"-THERE IS NO DEEPER MEANING TO THE THINGS AROUND US! -"

Relax cheesball. Jesus Christ. Chill out.

civilian_number_two,

"-PS: Religious debates ought to be in the debate club.-"

Probably but then part of the debate is that Jedi and Sith concepts are a religion and to prove/debate that people would have to bring up Star Wars related crap.

That element of this might not go very far though.

You might not have wanted to add your own comments about religion while saying it doesn't belong here. Kinda ruins your right to protest when you join in.

[StarWarsIsUs]

You gave three fucking definitions of Nihilism and said I wasn't all three. How the flying fuck was I supposed to know you were referring to
Satanist/Humanist/Nihilist?

There's no 'inherent' purpose in life. Meaning that we are born without a meaning. We get to grow up and decide for ourselves what we want to do in life and what our life should mean.
That's called freedom and it's bad ass.

As you worded it though you don't have any meaning in your life which means that in all the time you've been alive you haven't figured out what to do with yourself -other than post on Star Wars forums.

You're also talking to a 16 year old.

Give thinking about what you want your life to mean a try. You might come up with something good that makes you happy and hopefully doesn't involve hurting other people or killing animals in rituals or anything.

Read the Satanic Bible. Ritual sacrafice is against the Satanic precepts. Animals are the embodiment of innocence.

[StarWarsIsUs]

*sigh*

[barend]

Read the Satanic Bible. Ritual sacrafice is against the Satanic precepts. Animals are the embodiment of innocence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

in fact it says...
"do not harm animals unless for food or clothing"

it also says:
"do not harm little children"

it goes on to say not to even insult people in their own home, and that if you can't help but do that, you shouldn't go...

of all the religions i am familiar with... satanism is the nicest.
they have such an ill deserved reputation.

EDIT: infact didn't the jews used to sacrifice a lamb and send goats into the desert?

This post has been edited by barend: 19 May 2005 - 10:07 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

It also says, that if a person disrespects you in your own home, to destroy them.

[barend]

only if they refuse to leave....

it says, if someone offends you in your home, ask them to stop. if they do not, make them leave. If they refuse, DESTROY THEM!!!

edit: punctuation

This post has been edited by barend: 19 May 2005 - 11:13 PM

[Code Red]

of all the religions i am familiar with... satanism is the nicest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is possibly the scariest thing I've seen written on this forum, and believe me there's a LOT of scary fanboy shit here.

[azryan]

It’s a shame you just changed your avatar from that Clueless chick to Yoda. I guess you couldn’t handle the pressure.

Who’s being ‘destroyed’ now? hehe

Seriously.... I’m glad you told me you’re 16. It sounded like that or younger.

Now’s the time that you’re becoming an adult and beginning to think for yourself and getting the chance to choose what direction you want to go.

I’ll suggest again that you rethink your belief system and look into Rationalism.

This link explains the difference between being a Rationalist and being a Theologist

http://www.infidels....sts_manual.html

“-The aim of Rationalism is knowledge and truth -- discarding all supernatural revelation as superstition-“

If you want ‘power’ it’s not hatred that will get it for you. Hell... it didn’t even work for the Emperor for too long did it?

It’s logic and reason that are responsible for all the cool stuff you dig in life.

“-You gave three fucking definitions of Nihilism and said I wasn't all three. How the flying fuck was I supposed to know you were referring to Satanist/Humanist/Nihilist?-“

Those were two separate points I made. Don’t confuse them because you claimed to be three diff things and I gave you three diff defs for Nihilism -there are more.

As I said already... you said "-I consider myself a Satanist (Humanist, Nihilist),-“

I was defining all three belief systems/religions for you (and everyone else here).

You can’t be all three of these things because they contradict each other if you understand them all.

You don’t.

“-Read the Satanic Bible. Ritual sacrafice is against the Satanic precepts. Animals are the embodiment of innocence.-“

I’m not going to read that ‘bible’.

The dude behind that was just a con man from the 60's making money off of suckers.

I only believe in religions created by gods -of which there are none that I know of.

If there’s anything logical or rational in it that Satanic Bible that I don’t already understand then I’m sure I can get those ideas from elsewhere -but I doubt there is.

I mentioned the animal thing ‘cuz you typed like you were totally hyper and out of control.

It seemed like you were ready to go postal on something and killing an animal seemed like it fit with what you might do.

You saying you’re 16 makes that even clearer.

I don’t care if it’s not what your brand of Satan worship preaches.

[azryan]

Some truth about your favorite Satanic con man LeVey....

LEGEND: Claimed that "Anton Szandor LaVey" was his genuine birth name.

REALITY: Born "Howard Stanton Levey".

He was a liar. He invented a false history for himself from his name to who his parents were to how he was told about the 'Dark Side'.

LEGEND: ASL wrote the Satanic Bible, his principal work, to fulfill his congregation's need for a scriptural guide.

REALITY: The Satanic Bible was conceived as a commercial vehicle by paperback publisher Avon Books. Avon approached ASL for some kind of Satanic work to cash in on the Satanism & witchcraft fad of the late 1960s. Pressed for material to meet Avon's deadline, ASL resorted to plagiarism, assembling extracts from an obscure 1896 tract - Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard into a "Book of Satan" for the SB, and claiming its authorship by himself. [Ironically these MiR passages are the ones most frequently quoted by ASL disciples.] Another third of the SB consists of John Dee's "Enochian Keys", taken directly but again without attribution from Aleister Crowley's Equinox. The SB's "Nine Satanic Statements", one of the Church of Satan's central doctrines, is a paraphrase, again unacknowledged, of passages from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. The last words in the SB - "Yankee Rose" - have been puzzled over for years by readers. "YR" is actually the name of an old popular tune in ASL's nightclub repertoire.

SOURCES: ASL, The Satanic Bible; Ragnar Redbeard, Might is Right, Port Townsend: Loompanics (reprint), 1896; Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged (Galt's speech, ca. pages #936-993); "Yankee Rose" by Sidney Holden & Abe Frankl (Irving Berlin Music, 1926).

LEGEND: In 1945 the 15-year-old ASL was brought to the ruins of postwar Germany by his uncle, a U.S. Coast Guard officer. There the teenaged ASL was shown top-secret films inspired by Satanic cult lodges and their rituals. ASL claimed that the "German" rituals in his 1972 book The Satanic Rituals were actual transcripts of the filmed rituals he saw as a youth.

REALITY: Young Howard spent the entirety of 1945 in suburban northern California, and never visited Germany at any time in his life. The uncle who he claimed brought him to Germany was incarcerated at McNeill Island Penitentiary for involvement with Al Capone-related criminal activity during 1945, and was never in the armed forces. Allied martial law forbade U.S. citizens from visiting postwar Germany. The "German" rituals in the Satanic Rituals are written in extremely poor, Anglicized German. They are clearly uncredited adaptations of the short story The Hounds of Tindalos by Frank Belknap Long and H.G. Wells' famous novel The Island of Dr. Moreau.

LEGEND: ASL was exposed to the savagery of human nature during his stint as a San Francisco Police photographer in the early 1950s.

REALITY: San Francisco Police Department past employment records include no "Howard Levey" nor "Anton LaVey". Frank Moser, who was a SFPD photographer in the early 1950s, said that ASL never worked for the Department.

LEGEND: ASL purchased the house at 6114 California Street (which would later become the headquarters of the Church of Satan - the infamous "Black House") because he discovered on first inspection that it was the former brothel of Barbary Coast madam Mammy Pleasant. The house was honeycombed with trapdoors and secret passageways, built by Pleasant to elude police raids.

REALITY: 6114 was ASL's parents' home. It was never a brothel, nor did Mammy Pleasant ever live or work there. ASL's parents first allowed ASL and his first wife Carole to live in the house, then transferred ownership of it to ASL and his second wife Diane in 1971. Such secret passages and hidden rooms that exist were constructed by ASL.

LEGEND: On the night of April 30, 1966 (the German Satanic festival of Walpurgisnacht), ASL in a "blinding flash" declared himself the High Priest of Satan, proclaimed that the Age of Satan had begun, and founded the Church of Satan as a religious institution.

REALITY: In 1966 ASL supplemented his income by presenting weekend lectures on exotic and occult topics, and by conducting "Witches' Workshops". He charged $2 a head, filling his living room with the curious and establishing a local reputation as an eccentric. Professional publicist Edward Webber suggested to ASL that he "would never make any money by lecturing on Friday nights for donations ... it would be better to form some sort of church and get a charter from the State of California ... I told Anton at the time that the press was going to flip out over all this and that we would get a lot of notoriety". In the summer of 1966, long after the fictional founding-date invented later, a newspaper article about ASL's lectures offhandedly referred to him as "priest of the Devil's church". This mixture of Webber's idea and the newspaper's characterization resulted in the creation of the Church of Satan as a business and publicity vehicle. Jack Webb, a San Francisco Police investigator who knew ASL from the "Lost Weekend" nightclub, also suggested that he should form a church of some kind to exploit his recondite knowledge.

Don’t be a sucker.

[DarthTherion]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Is anyone familiar with Thelema, the philosophy/religion/magical system of Aleister Crowley? I've been studying it for several years, and I've always found it to be deep and full of wisdom. Crowley liked to maintain the "image" of a Satanist, mostly to scare away those who aren't ready for his philosophy, but Thelema is hardly "devil worship" in any conventional sense.

The essential concept of Thelema is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," which is not a hedonistic license to do anything you want. Quite the opposite. It is rather a charge to discard the "desires" of the ego and discover the True Will of one's being (something like "destiny" you might say) and accomplish it. This is not really the "doing" of a specific task, but more the spontaneous Wu Wei of Taoism.

The other key concept of Thelema is "Love is the law, love under will"; this indicates that the nature of Will is Love and that Love drives the entire universe. ("Love" in its most exalted sense of mystical union, of course)

Alot of people say that Crowley was a charlatan. I doubt it strongly, but it would not really matter if he was. Even lies can lead to the Truth. "The colours are many, but the light is one."

I'm not really a fan of Satanism. My distaste for it stems from a dislike of the kinds of people it attracts (no offense to any Satanists here, but there are plenty of weirdos, pseudo-nazis, and conservative douchebags who run around with the label "Satanist.") There is nothing wrong with its philosophic principles, but, as has already been noted, LaVey pieced the faith together from a variety of sources, drawing heavily on Crowley.

So I'd urge any Satanists or seekers to check out Thelema.

Love is the law, love under will

P.S. The Thelemic concepts of the White Brotherhood and the Black Brotherhood remind me a little of the Jedi and the Sith, but this is far too deep a subject to explore in depth here.

[floppydisk]

You know, azrayn, there's a delicous segment of the forum called the debate club. They'd love to have you join.
Clicky for debate club!