[Jordan]

I've heard people say that the economy would be better off if there was no minimum wage. I did some reading on it and I still dont' understand what the hell these people are talking about

1) Why is it bad for the economy?

2) Why is it good for the economy?


People argue that it's good and bad. What do you think, and somebody please explain to me how abolishing min wage would help the economy.

[Rhubarb]

Well if they're talking about abolishing the law that exists to make sure people aren't allowed to pay their employees 10c an hour in order to better serve the economy, then... I dunno what they're talking about either.

I assume they all have highpaying jobs though.

edit - after some research, I have concluded that it's a bullshit argument crafted to allow Government and employers (in Australia at least) to argue against a 2005 minumum wage increase. Because the bosses of Australia care deeply about our economy.

This post has been edited by Rhubarb: 01 May 2005 - 05:05 PM

[MacGyver's Mullet]

the argument against minimum wage is basically "not allowing the (ahem) 'market' [profiteers] to define what a empoyer should pay their employee is bad for the 'market' [profits]" because having a standardised minimum wage means employers can't react to dynamic changes in the marketplace - ie when profits are down by a few quid, they can't put the burden on the employee.

Yes, its a bullshit argument.

[J m HofMarN]

Lets not forget that, with inflation, many employees make BELOW minimum wage here in America, and they also aren't being paid enough to live. I know people who need two jobs just to get by. If the minimum wage laws are being abused this much I shudder to imagine what it would be like if there WERE no laws.

However, I am for this. The American regime needs to be overthrown and if they would get down to striking minimum wage laws and doing away with a few of the other things Bush is after it would start the country on a decline to what it's going to become eventually anyhow- Russia circa 1917. In fact America was pretty much like that for most of its history. Just read The Grapes of Wrath. However, if that kind of abuse spread over the whole country with the aid of the government there'd be some seriously wrathful grapes out there.

[Rhubarb]

I can think of more fun ways to discredit Bush. Like getting a 6-foot dude covered in rose oil and pink lycra to leap out of his birthday cake and sing 'It's Raining Men' whilst pawing at the Presidential crotch. Actually it probably wouldn't discredit him from his more hardcore following who would probably complain about the gay alien conspiracy, but I'd still pay a substantial amount to witness it. The proceeds can go toward fueling the economy.

[J m HofMarN]

It would be a lot easier to get him to say he's gay. Just watch any of his speeches about homosexuals, he'll stumble eventually.

[Slade]

Most of the grapes got stepped on by the military when they became wrathful back then. I'm sure it would happen the same way today, with an excuse to further the reactionary regime, but it certainly would anger a good deal of people, and you can't step on everyone.

Rhubs: That wouldn't work, but I'd pay to see it too.

[barend]

minimum wage as a la is great. but it needs to be increased... in most places in many jobs...

there should be a maximum wage though....

take a company like Coles Myer (Australia).
there's all sorts of wonderfull things going on there...
take for example the guy stacking the shelves in the middle of the night.
his hours used to be midnight to 9am. but they realized they could pay him less if they changed the 'stacking hours' so that he finishes work at 3am just before they would have to start paying him extra. 3am!!! when there are no fucking busses or trains... nice one.
if christmas or new-years falls on a saturday but the public holiday is on the monday, the guy that works on christmas gets no extra pay...
they all get payed 'minimum wage' and not a cent more...

now i don't exactly what regional managers get paid (they're the guys that don't really do any real work) but I DO know that the Sydney and surrounding RM got a christmas bonus of $6million.

isn't that just precious.

the coles supermarket network is a lot like the military... if you join as a private... the best you'll get is a promotion to corporal of mayby sergent.

some young nimrod with no people skills who did a 2 hour course will come in and suddenly be your captain.

so shelf stacker will be luck to get to shift/floor manager (which means you get to organise the other stackers, and they tell you the key code to let the cleaners in at 2am.

the problem with socioeconomic structure is right there.
fuck minimum wage laws... we need hirachy ratio laws.

don't get me wrong... communism is bullshit (it's nice but it doesn't work)... I mean, sorry to be a bit of stakitonovite but someone who knows how to perform open heart surgery deserves a bigger paycheck than someone who sits in a video store.

but in an organisation where the people who do all the work get an anual wage that is less than 0.5% of the regional managers X-mas bonus... i think somethings is very fucking wrong!!!

---------------------------

There needs to be some regulation for every $100,000 you earn you must pay in wages a certain amount by a scale that pertains to quantity of staff.

like i said... some sort of ratio of heirachy that DOESN'T look like:
10000000000000000000000/240/12/1

This post has been edited by barend: 01 May 2005 - 08:28 PM

[Slade]

Yeah, that income gap just keeps rising, doesn't it?

Edit: Minimum wage exists to keep employers from totally exploiting the workers. Of course, minimum wage only seems to rise 7 years or so behind the current inflation rate, and it's never actually enough to support a single person with any decent quality of living. but it's a start.

This post has been edited by Slade: 01 May 2005 - 11:05 PM

[kdogg]

1) The reason having a minimum wage is bad is because it reduces the number of jobs that a company can have. If they have to pay more per worker, they will theoretically hire less people and be more selective/have higher hiring standards. Plus, having a minimum wage may lead companies to outsource work to countries that have less restrictions such as India.
2) The reason having a minimum wage is good is because it will help prevent companies from abusing the labor market. Plus, it will provide a higher standard of living for those with a job.

[Slade]

Shouldn't outsourcing be considered abusing the market?

[kdogg]

Shouldn't outsourcing be considered abusing the market?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it's a different labor market since it's in a different country with different standards of living. It would tough for an adult living in the U.S. to survive on $7/hour, but that may be enough to someone in India.

[barend]

Well, it's a different labor market since it's in a different country with different standards of living. It would tough for an adult living in the U.S. to survive on $7/hour, but that may be enough to someone in India.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

which is why minimum wage laws should still be applicable when outscourcing.
in fact it should be hire because the person is not in direct contact with the company.

$20/hour.

[Slade]

Then the price setters would just raise the prices to compensate for deflation.

[barend]

no they wouldn't... because once they were unable to save so much cash from cutting corners and underpaying the workers, they would not want to the price of anything to go up...

the same people who keep the poor poor, are the ones who determine how much the poor pay for things...

that 10% controlling the 90% of weath, would have to give some up...