QUOTE (barend @ May 4 2005, 11:55 AM)
alright... I'll try and make this as clear as possible, for darthsmash you argue well... and i have anjoyed debating this with you. (really, you are good at this).
Thankyou. I have also enjoyed these debates if found them a little distracting. Hell with all the energy and thought being poured into this thread we should turn it all into a book -
"Midichlorians - Shit or Not?". I'd buy it...
QUOTE
but...
the second you introduce an scientific element to a fantasy idea, you suddenly impose upon it restrictions.
the problem here, with science fiction concepts is that they require a realistic set of limmitations.
saying that these single cell lifeforms or micr-organisms can communicate a disturbance accross space is a bit much.
Obi wan sensed "a disturbance in the force" from across the vacuum of space. the midiCs were all vapourised as were the hosts of whom were by definition of symbiosis were the only things keeping them alive... They were in NO way in a possition to communicate long distance signals accross the fathoms of the vacuum of space.
"It was if thousands of voices cried out and silenced"
bearing in mind that the shot fired at them destroyed the planet, no one would have had the time to really feel a thing.
OK thats a good one. I will concede that there should not have been any time for a signal of "OMG I'm DYING!!!" to form in any Alderaanians brain let alone be picked up by the midis and transmitted across space.
However I have a couple of scenarios which may explain it.
1) Cheapest one first: Obi-Wan was speaking poetically. Thousands of voices "crying out and being silenced" was a simile he was using after all to convey to a room full of non-Jedi what he was experiencing. What he may have sensed was instead a very concentrated midi/sentient cluster (go with me here) that he was always dimly aware of in that "connected to everything" way suddenly disappear. Part of the web that binds us suddenly had a big hole in it. In effect what he should have said was "It was if thousands of voices were suddenly silenced".
2) What Obi sensed was the post annihilation reaction of this planet of dudes suddenly becoming one with the force. With their midis annihilated along with their bodies there was no longer any need for the midis to establish a link to the force - a dead human/sentient is a disembodied consciousness in the SW universe and hence is "made one with the force". At the instant that this happened, after they realised they were all dead, the Alderaanians registered there extreme shock and displeasure in the force and then quickly settled down.
3) As you point out the megadeath of Alderaan happened too quickly for any Alderaniaan to realise what was happening before annihilation. This poses problems for Obi-Wans "voices cried out and were silenced" statement even if you have a no midi version of the force. Presumably the crying out was a kind of pre-death "Aaaargh!" and the sudden silence was the "force scream" being ended by death. Still doesn't make any sense. Unless you go for one of the first two explanations (or your own better one). At any rate it is not really a problem for midis as their absence does not make the inconsistency in Kenobi's statement any less inconsistent. Still its a cool line.
QUOTE
so, when you really look at it rationally, what ben felt was really spiritual. As the force was (as lucas himself confessed in at the time of the OT) based on eastern religion and mysticism.
arguments can be put forward on the fine points and details for and against quite equally, but ultimatley the question comes down to this.
scientifically rationalizing (adequatley or the way lucas does it) a spiritual idea that serves as the backbone for characters' motivation, is reckless and self defeating.
wars were fought because the little things living in my blood didn't like the little things living in your blood. I mean that IS what MCs would have us ultimatley beleive the essential difference between LS and DS is.
No not at all by my way of thinking. The force, light or dark, is quite separate from the midis. The midis are as irrelevant to any conflict between the light and dark side and its practitioners as the phone lines/cable/satellite that allow me to communicate with you now are irrelevant to our disagreement over the value of midichlorians. Now join me in the
Dark Side. You don't know its explanatory power!!!
QUOTE
it's just not appropriate.
the concept DOES limmit the general scope of what the force is, and put's it out of place. like saying God Told Joan of Arc to fight the English using an 'Orion to Soul' Nokia 344, Metaphysical Prayer Answering modulator.
it spoils the mood... next time you ask a girl out, make your opening statement,
"Hi, I don't know you, but if you're no busy later, i'd like to penetrate your vagina"It's what george would do
Well I'll give it a shot but to be honest I'm not real good with all that romantic-type talk. I usually just go with something simple and reliable like -
"I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything’s soft... and smooth..."