[J m HofMarN]

I was just off searching unsuccessfully for some pictures of Vader's skeleton from ROTJ but I found something else of interest. I saw the picture of Vader holding out his hand to Luke in ESB, and some old shots of Obi Wan and Solo and others, but the shot that really surprised me was the Vader one. Despite the actor's face being hidden behind a mask and not having any captions on the photo I still understood what he was doing just by looking at it, and I could feel the emotion put forth there. I dont remember that happening in the PT. So a guy covered in black pvc was able to better express himself than someone who's face was uncovered. Just a little more evidence that the OT's acting quality is vastly superior.

[Mnesymone]

Darth Vader was well put-together - well-designed appearance, serious voice talent and physical presence, well written for - he reaches his apogee in ESB, where, as the real power behind the characters, he steps into, or rather opposite, the role of Alec Guiness in Star Wars.

That's one of the things about the OT - the younger actors played their parts, but it was the older actors who really held the piece together, with seriously experienced actors in well-crafted characters, who might not be leading in screentime, but really give it an edge. Peter Cushing and Alec Guiness. Damn fine actors - Ealing comedies and Hammer horror - damn fine.

But there were powerful scenes in the OT - Obi-Wan Kenobi in his adobe abode relating the history of the galaxy to Luke, the destruction of Alderaan, Darth Vader's impassioned dolorous temptation to Luke, Luke and Vader fighting before the Emperor like gladiators before Ceasar - the PT's most powerful scene was... was... will be the painful and gruesome death of Jar Jar Binks

[J m HofMarN]

I agree with you about Obi Wan and Vader being great talent. They really did make the original movies come to life. There dosnt seem to be hardly any older talent at all in the PT when you look at it, it's all just a bunch of fairly popular actors, even S L Jackson, whom I really do respect, seems to have been hired and used only on name recognition.

[Mnesymone]

Ïf he had some room to act in he might be able to do something - but I think everyone acted out what the lines were worth - leaden deliveries of piss-poor dialogue - compare Alec Guiness relating the story of the force to Luke and Liam Neeson relating the story of midichlorians to some random child actor, another example of a clear PT vs OT direct comparison. Doesn't take a genius to work out which one wins.

[barend]

'king oath!!!

[Lord Aquaman]

There's no denying it - actors in the OT actually emoted, actors in the PT either don't emote at all or simply emote badly (I don't know which is worse... not being able to emote or doing a bad job of emoting)

And it's all true. Liam Neeson relating the midi-chlorian crap to the random child actor is nothing compared to Alec Guinness telling Luke how it is with the Force in the older movies. And Liam Neeson is actually a pretty good actor.

This may be the wrong place to put this question, but I would like to ask what you were expecting the Jedi to be like in the PT. I wasn't expecting any Han Solos or Erroll Flynn types, but I wasn't expecting the bunch that I got. GL spouts off about the Jedi as if they were samurai or the Knights of the Round Table, but the Jedi just don't do much of anything, they come across as being merely scenery.

Of course, it would help a lot if not EVERYONE was stoic in every single frame of the film.

[J m HofMarN]

Aquaman- Know what you mean, master Yoda does not. The one who is stoic, perhaps you are. Ermmmm?

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. Mace and Yoda are the worst of the lot.

[Mnesymone]

But... the buggers are useless - Qui-Gon says 'I'm not here to free slaves' and 'I can't fight a war for you' - what can he do - the only times he uses the force are to fail at convincing a mosquito to accept money, to hurl a CGI droid at another CGI droid and to load a dice.
Then Mace and Yoda sit around on feet seat cushions meditating, then when they realise they are useless, they don't tell anyone about it so that they can finally say "I think it is time to tell the Senate that our ability to use the Force has been diminished" - Yoo hoo, Senate, your guardians of peace and justice are impotent!

Also,they have no ties to the world, live in a giant palace, and act like the UN with "we must not exceed our mandate" - I had always thought they would rove around the galaxy humbly, finding problems, solving them - and none of them would make Captain America quips like "So we went into aggressive negotiations... negotiations with a lightsaber"
That line was the kind of thing I'd expect from 'Top Gun' - it actually makes 'your ego's writing checks your body can't cash' look good!

[J m HofMarN]

Yeah, it seems to me that Lucas kind of mixed up his priorities. In the OT it was the lovestory that tried to be humorous and full of wit (and indeed succeeded) and it was the Jedi who were epic and moving. Now we get the Jedi trying to be witty "this party's over!" or "aggressive negotiations" and we get anakin and padme trying to sound theatrical during their wooing of eachother. I shudder to think what it would have been like had the OT been like this:

"When I left you I was but the student, now I am the master"

"You may not be a student Darth, but I'm gunna school you!"

[Mnesymone]

'This station is now the best damn negotiating tool in the universe - I suggest we blockade some random planet with it'
'It's you who is the tool - and you are a fool'
'Gentlemen, allow me to interrupt you - our Imperial big daddy has finally booted those blundering dunderheads into outer space - also my friend Lord Vader is standing behind me not saying much"

"Ever since you called me a scruffy looking nerf herder, I'm in agony - there is a scar in my heart from the witty repartee we should not have had"
"We can't go on like this Han - it would destroy us"

Incidentally, why would Padme and Anakin's romance destroy them - just because Anakin is a jedi doesn't make him a monk, and just because she's a senator doesn't mean she has to be an immovable ice queen.

[The Scornful Roman]

Incidentally, why would Padme and Anakin's romance destroy them - just because Anakin is a jedi doesn't make him a monk, and just because she's a senator doesn't mean she has to be an immovable ice queen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but it just does, ya see... just because.

Which is patently ridiculous, because in the EU they had marriage-- for Leia, and eventually for Luke. And how does the Jedi population replenish itself if not by reproduction? Since the Force was created by life itself (at least according to the OT), it seems to me that a Jedi would want to bring about more Force and more life-- i.e., to reproduce.

[CowboyCurtis]

But... the buggers are useless - Qui-Gon says 'I'm not here to free slaves' and 'I can't fight a war for you' - what can he do - the only times he uses the force are to fail at convincing a mosquito to accept money, to hurl a CGI droid at another CGI droid and to load a dice.

Such an EXCELLENT POINT!! I mean this is truly the heart of the Jedi matter---what good are they if they are not "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy?" It's so flabber-ghastly disgusting!!! You are so right!

[J m HofMarN]

Mnesymone- Haha those were great, or howabout the scene where Han is about to be frozen in carbonite:

Leia: I love you with all my heart Han Solo.

Han: I knew from the day we met that we were destined to be together. When I get thawed out I want to marry you and make you the happiest woman on earth!!!

Vader: Is this going to take much longer? I have to cut off Luke's hand five minutes ago...

just because she's a senator doesn't mean she has to be an immovable ice queen.

Being a senator you'd think she would be more inclined to get her thang on.

[barend]

C3-P0: bless the maker, this oil bath is going to feel so good. this planet is full of sand. sand is corse and it gets up your ass... not like marble floors, they're shinny and smooth.
LUKE: *stares at him awkwardly for a moment* I want you