[njamilla]

That lardbiscuit article is a lousy apologetic. I read the whole article about a year ago and got sick of his silly assumptions and lousy logic. I can't remember any specific quotes to substantiate my statement so I'm to be faulted for failure to back up assertions, but the article was truly unremarkable and basically a pro-SW saga rant. The repetition, the emotionalism, the length simply make his writing unbearable.


To get back on topic, I sort of lost faith at the end of ROTJ when they started playing the corny music at the end of the movie. I was in high school skipping school with permission from my dad and by the end of the movie it became clear that GL basically created a kiddie film.

I was excited about the potential of EP 1, but as an adult it's hard to equate the new films with serious cinema. I guess that's what I was hoping for. With remakes of old standards like King Arthur, Sparticus, et al, SW was fresh in a new universe. King Arthur is very popular because the story resonates. EP 1 and 2 do not resonate. They're just films. People don't say they're their favorite films. They're just there.

The cinematic thud was measured for me palpably when I did a book tour three years ago promoting Shimmering Sword. The talks were scheduled after the debut of the film and there were very few people attending my talks. Compare that to my talks 6 years earlier when I didn't even have a book to promote when there was hardly any standing room at all of my talks. The excitement for SW was so high at the time of TPM (which was a dud), and then after the premiere of AOTC, the interest in things SW to the general public was at an all time low. Similarly, DK Publishing was nearly went bankrupt when they printed so many copies of the SW vidual dictionaries and got so little a return on them.

[jariten]

Similarly, DK Publishing was nearly went bankrupt when they printed so many copies of the SW vidual dictionaries and got so little a return on them.

Hmm. Its interesting that you group sales of an obscure referance book (which are, I might add, a tedious waste of pulp and god knows who would even want to buy them) with discussion about the popularity of the film. For a film with whom public interest was at an all time low (right after the Premiere too!) it's odd that it went on to recoup its production costs 6 times over. I think theres still a few Jar Jar toilet seat covers left too.

[ernesttomlinson]

It's a fair point, Azerty. Yes, RETURN OF THE JEDI was bad - bad in part, anyway. I wanted to believe that it was an anomaly and that the newer movies would not continue in its tradition.

Also I contend that ROTJ still has an integrity that the prequels lack. For one thing it tells a story that's actually possible to follow. It's straightforward enough: Luke goes to Tatooine to rescue Han and then they go to war. There's nothing wrong with the plot, just with the execution; with a bit of rewriting - fixing up the Tatooine sequences, getting rid of the Ewoks but keeping the idea of a fight between the Stormtroopers and the natives on Endor - ROTJ could have been great. At any rate it's not the confused mess that the prequels are. OK, maybe I should have expected less but surely not that much less.

[JW Wells]

Can you speak some Japanese? How come?

. . . .

anyway JW, good observation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, watashi wa ichinenkan (?) Daigaku ni (??) nihongo-o benkyou shimashita.

When I changed majors from Psychology to Computer Science, I figured "what the hey" and signed up for Japanese 101. I now fondly look back on it as "the year I melted my brain". I was good at memorizing kanji, at least.

[njamilla]

BTW, I thought the new music for ROTJ DVD redeemed the film for me. Well, maybe it didn't redeem it, but it made it better.

Boku mo nihongo o shaberu koto ga dekimasu.

[Storm]

Hello. I decided to sign up for this forum today and I wanted to start off by thanking Chef Elf for bringing me much laughter by reading his numerous points as to why to hate Episode I and II.

I'm actually a little surprised to see so many people who dislike Return of the Jedi. I suppose when I first saw it I was pretty young, and it was thus quite enjoyable for me. The first part of the film in Jabba's palace I have always found to be very boring, however I've always been quite entertained by the space battle and every scene involving the Emperor.

Anyhow, I just finished watching Attack of the Clones again last night. When I first saw it in the theater, I nearly walked out prior to the ending because I found it to be extremely boring and it just didn't seem to have a point. After watching it again last night, I wasn't sure whether I was actually watching a Star Wars movie or Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. There are so many points in the movie that I have absolutely no idea what is going on. For example, after Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme escape from their execution, there is a large battle in the desert. There are so many ridiculous looking vehicles and laser blasts that it took me a while to realize that the clone army was actually fighting a droid army, not themselves.

Nearly everything in that movie looks absolutely fake. In the original trilogy, I was actually convinced that a Cloud City did exist, or that I actually was aboard an Imperial Star Destroyer, and I was flying through a real asteroid field. The problem I find with these new movies is that they never seem to establish an atmopshere/setting that the viewer is comfortable with. What exactly is the logic in using these new graphics to making a ship? The Star Destroyers in the Original Trilogy looked like they actually existed! I just don't get it.

One last point: I don't know if I was half asleep or not during the movie, but after Anakin revisits Tatooine and is leaving, I noticed that C-3PO is in the ship with them. Why the hell is he there? Anakin is going to attempt to save Obi-Wan from a deadly planet, so what use is their for C-3PO? I know Anakin created him, but don't you think the Lars family would have more use for him on their farm {and especially since they probably bought him}? I felt as though it was an excuse to get C-3P0 and R2-D2 together with absolutely no explanation provided. Anakin was pissed that his mother died. I think the last thing on his mind would be reclaiming the droid he created as a young child.

[barend]

that way owen can buy him back... in ANH

it was anikans first step towards evil...

-------------------------------

welcome aboard to our hateful family

[Despondent]

I sense a warm front.

Whip it up, Storm! (great points.)

[thrawn]

Does anyone agree with me about Boba Fett?

[Jordan]

I hated TPM from Naboo onward. Naboo gave birth to so many BS plot devices.

The entire political fiasco could have been background story.

Has anyone read THE MATRICE CIRCLE, by Robert Ludlum (Author of the Bourne trilogy)? At the beginning of each chapter, as a side note, he would remind the reader that the Matrice are infact trying to take over the world by buying out large corporations and fusing them together. It was delivered in a newspaper cut out manner. Reading headlines "newspaper corps are joining together...blah blah"

You had a good indication that something bad was happening, without actually going into it with great depth. It gave the Matrice a mysterious appeal.

The above should have been used in the PT's. Instead, we're slapped in the face with all the politcal bullshit.

[jariten]

Do you think it's fair to compare a novel to a film in this way?

I thought the way Lucas included politics in the prequels was fairly successful. A couple of dry scenes aside, what we largely see is the result of Palpatines behind the scenes string pulling. We're left with clues, and asked to piece it together ourselves.

[Hannibal]

Episode 4: Meet Himmler. Watch him kill 6 billion people.
Episode 5: See Himmler torture those who oppose tyranny.
Episode 6: Watch Himmler get into Heaven.

Episode 1: Baby Himmler.
Episode 2: Teen Himmler in love.
Episode 3: Himmler gets hired by Hitler.

Yeah, I'd say episode 6 is where the true loathsomeness really kicked in.

You see, this is my contention all along, this is the stinking heart of the thing, how in hell does Lucas really excuse Himmler for getting into heaven?

As I've said, its truly about the midichlorians, and what they represent, not simply some genetic master race theory, its the metaphor: Certain people (darth vader, hitler, himmler, pol pot, stalin, you name it...) according to Lucas, cannot be judged like ordinary men, they are above us all, they have "destiny" and no matter that we peons with no such midichlorians feel Himmler should have been put in the gas chamber and sent to hell, its not for us lower life forms to consider. These men are different, they have a divine mission beyond our ordinary perceptions...whether they kill millions or happen to torture anyone, the end justifies the means...this as I have said countless times, is FASCISM. A fascist belief, or mythology call it what you will. George Lucas is never overt, and perhaps it is not even overtly intentional, but it is what it is: Darth Vader gets to go to Jedi Heaven. Its okay he did what he did in the end, he murdered yoda's closest friends and comrades, Mace, Jiggly-tits the Jedi, and Tentacle-Head...and just because he saves his son, he gets into Force-Heaven?

The mass-murdering psycho is worse than Hitler. Hitler was sick in the head, he was full of hate, he ordered the deaths of millions, but did he actually ever kill a Jew himself? No. Did he ever take pleasure in going out into the desert to hack up families with a sword? No. Darth Vader did. Did Hitler ever choke countless officers to death becasue he was pissed? No. He had somebody else shoot them. Did Hitler ever torture his own daughter? (Well, I guess he raped his niece...) I guess what I am saying here is, even after watching the films about Hilter as a youth, I never felt sorry for him...

Lucas, his midichlorians and Jedi indulgences(pardons) for genocidal, torturing, mass murdering, mad force-stranglers is mighty hard for me to accept. Anyone here who rails on the Catholic Church about every concievable thing that actually accepts the Jedi beliefs as "progressive" is out of their minds. Darth Vader is a sick madman, and so what if he happens to save his son. The end of the whole series is a joke. The beginning of the series is a joke, and tis full of fascistic attitudes. Anybody who denies the obvious here about the REDEMPTION story being utterly unforgivable(pun intended) needs to watch Star Wars over and over again for all eternity when they die. That should be your hell.

[Hannibal]

The Crimes of Darth Vader(That we know of...)

Prequel Crime: Kills sandpeople, along with their children

1.chokes rebel soldier to death throws him against wall(not an act of self defense)
2.assaults officer by choking him
3.concievably ordered the deaths of Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru/Jawas (unknown)"Send a detachment down to retrieve them...See to it personally commander there will be NO ONE to stop us this time"
4.Tortures/"interrogates" Princess Leia, his daughter
5.While not actually giving the order, stands by and watches an entire planet full of people blow up(genocide) ...come on he would have done it himself if he had the chance...
6.kills Obiwan Kenobi in an unsporting way during a duel
7.puts a cap in the ass of a few rebel pilots
8.chokes some imperial officers and kills them
9.tortures Han Solo (his son-in-law to be) and carbon freezes him(cruel and unusual punishment/experimentation on live human beings)
10.beats up his own son, cuts off his hand
11.conspires to corrupt his own son, and hand him over to the genocidal maniac, Palpatine

He then dies, and goes to Jedi Heaven and sits at the right hand of Our Lord Yoda, and the Holy Force, and St.Obiwan Kenobi. Amen.

[barend]

1. chokes enemy of the galactic state, throws him against wall for treason
2. chokes subortinate for insubordination
3.concievably ordered the deaths of people in possession of government property, and ading and abiding insurgents
4. excercises parental duties
5. makes an example of known insurgent territory
6. Obiwan Kenobi forfeits fight to the death
7. puts a cap in the ass of a few rebel pilots who were trying to destroy capitol ball.
8. clears out some dead wood
9. interrogates enemy of the state/smuggler/murderer but forgets to ask questions
10. more parental duties
11. invites his son into the family business

[thrawn]

Hannibal stop spreading youre jewish propaganda and destroying SW for me, there is no fascism of any kind in SW its all in youre hebrew mind!!!

On the topic of fascism......

this as I have said countless times, is FASCISM. A fascist belief, or mythology call it what you will. George Lucas is never overt, and perhaps it is not even overtly intentional, but it is what it is: Darth Vader gets to go to Jedi Heaven.

Well, I think Fascism is great, I think its the best form of government, keeping the people under control, and obeidient to create stable society. Just look at the world today, its all screwed up , crazy new laws under the so-called "democracy", race mixing, gay marrages, creation of various cults and sects, outrageous high crime rate, all this is a result of lack of control of the people. You see dogs need to be on a leesh and under control because if theyre not they run off and cause trouble. Thats how people are like, you have to have some kind of control in the limit of freedom they have. The human mind is a powerful tool, and if too much freedom is given it runs rampant and it does new and crazy things. I admire the idea of a perfect society, strong family values, and the creation of a master race, it is neccesary to create a stable, and safe society that boosts national culture, in this case German and European. Because after all family values are most important!!!

Hitler was sick in the head, he was full of hate, he ordered the deaths of millions, but did he actually ever kill a Jew himself? No.

I personally admire Hitler, he created something new and special. He united the German people together, and used his power to install the idea of a perfect society, strong family values, and the creation of a master race. An excellent speaker, he filled peoples mind with patriotism and love of their nation and to preserve the purity of the nation. He wanted to create a new and great order for him and his people. He made sure every German had work and that families were well sustained, notice that there wasn't any poverty for Germans at that time. Not to mention Hitler solving Germanys greatest econonmic crisis after WWI.

Did Hitler ever torture his own daughter? (Well, I guess he raped his niece...)

Bullshit!! Hitler never raped his niece, he was protective of her, the problem was he was too over protective of her. Also Hitler never had a daughter.

Hannibal, I didn't want to, because I know this is a sensitive subject for some people, but you made me and may I remind you that this is a SW forum so this is not the place to discuss matters like this...