[rangwe]

Yeah, I hear you civnum2, Jedi hurt my feelings but didn't break my heart. The heartbreak was in Menace, when I had to face the possibility that it was all a lucky accident and there is no Easter Bunny.

The smacketh was handed down unto me that day, brotha!

- rangwe

[djdk]

Hi all!
Well, the moment I realized all that was crap... the past being ridiculously more advanced than the future was something that made me really unconfortable, Qui-Gon melting a door with a lightsaber, even if it was a minor detail, wasn't what I was prepared to watch, Jar Jar wasn't really a character I would expect... but all this could be forgiven! The crucial moment when all went down was when the word "midi-chlorian" was pronounced. From that moment on, that wasn't Star Wars anymore for me!

[Hannibal]

As soon as Quigon began melting the door, I realized the plagiarism ws going to run rampant, this scene is from FORBIDDEN PLANET.

[ernesttomlinson]

I was worried about TPM, and I was pretty bored by the dumb James Bond opening. I don't even know these guys, and already they're buried in pointless action.

To be fair, STAR WARS also begins in the middle of things with people we don't know. I've been thinking, "Now why did that work but not THE PHANTOM MENACE"? The answer, I think, lies in STAR WARS's simplicity. What we learn in the first five or ten minutes of the film is that there's an Empire, a rebellion, a Princess, and a bad-ass villain dressed in black. It's all totally generic and it works beautifully. What more do we need to know? But TPM bogs us down right from the start with a half-assed attempt at detail. Hearing about a rebellion against an empire, you say, "Cool!" Hearing about negotiations between some planet with a goofy name and a "Trade Federation", you say, "Huh?"

The fight was nice but not amazing like Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi in CROUCHING TIGER, which I'd already seen.  So, yawn.

But that's not even a fair comparison. It's like comparing Moet et Chandon with Mountain Dew.

Well, maybe it's not so unfair. The fight between Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi kicked ass not merely because of brilliant choreography and Yeoh's tough-as-nails charisma but because there was actually some personality behind the action. It wasn't *just* a swordfight. The outcome of the fight says something about the character of the two women who fought. The Maul vs. Jedi fight is just a set piece on a very contrived set. (Although there is one cool moment where no fighting is going on.)

[azerty]

Here's a chap with a point of view...

http://www.lardbiscu.../ilovetpm4.html

He seems reasonable, even if you disagree.

[Hannibal]

" I think I understand the basic reasons why people are so negative about the movie. The Phantom Menace is very much like the cave of evil that Luke had to confront during his training on Dagobah: you will find inside it only what you take with you. And a lot of people marched inside with their weapons loaded for bear and their minds clouded by the dark side."

I have been waiting for this kind of bullshit response to PM/Star Wars bashing, its like the kind of neo-zen logic that got 6 million jews murdered back in WWII. Basically its calling 'denial' or living in denial, "a positive outlook." How cute. You see in fact, the Jews were responsible for everything bad in Germany, they just WANTED THE GERMANS TO BELIEVE they WEREN't RATS that should be executed...thats right because they WANTED the Germans to believe that, and they were really slimey and treacherous fiends...if the Germans were to believe that Jews were human, then why, all that killing would have been WRONG.

Here's another way to put it: You hate George Bush because you are negative, and we will lose the war with a negative attitude, if only you could be positive about the Iraq War and George Bush, Bush would change, the world would be different, and we'd capture Bin Laden and win the Iraq war.
It is merely the incessant "negativity" of the left that has held back the war...merely the bad attitute which karmically creates the reality of a losing war and a criminally dangerous president....you know like Schroedinger's Cat dilemma...

Yeah and I'm the Pope.

[ernesttomlinson]

It's a load of horseshit. I went into THE PHANTOM MENACE excited. I thought it was going to be great. I was too young to watch STAR WARS in the theatre when it came out - I was only three - but now I was getting my chance to see a Star Wars movie on the big screen for the first time. By the time of ATTACK OF THE CLONES my expectations were someone diminished but still I'd heard enough to give me a little hope that Lucas had managed to warm up and get the rust out. I didn't go to see *either* movie with the intention of hating them.

Mr. Lard Biscuit must accept something about those who hate the prequels. It is entirely possible that they hate them because they suck. And there's one other thing he should consider as well. The virulence of the hatred for the prequels is extreme, yes, but that's not because the fans went into the movies ready to blast them. They went in ready to cheer them. Nothing fuels bitterness and feelings of betrayal like dashed expectations. The higher the expectations, the worse the betrayal. We went in hoping for Star Wars magic and instead we got a half-assed political intrigue and a ten-year-old kid blowing up a ship by accident while shouting "Yippee!!" Mr. Biscuit should realise this.

This post has been edited by ernesttomlinson: 23 March 2005 - 05:16 PM

[azerty]

Interesting, possibly true, but you'll have to explain the connection with the movie. I understand that people feel proprietary towards George's movies now, hence the "cave of evil" analogy, but who cares? They are HIS movies. They all basically sucked except for the Original Star Wars.

(Actually I get the Bush part, but not the Jew part)

Anyway, that other website can't be dismissed in an offhand way, because that guy has a lot of points to make. If you really disagree with all that, you have to make some effort.

People can like or hate a movie, and they don't have to know why, but if you choose to argue a specific point of view about youir view, you better have some specifics. That Phantom Liker does make an effort, and he is fairly coherent. Argue with him! Almost nobody here argues anymore.

...I'm still waiting to be convinced that the Empire Strike back isn't rubbish...

[barend]

the biggest problem with the door/sabre sceene is that is means everything we thought you could do with a lightsabre could be done.

if i had a lightsabre, i'd leave switched off so no one saw it, point the open end of the handle at someone and switch it on. instant-kill.

but of course lucas would consider that murder...
and no one is a 'murderer' in the lucaverse.

[jariten]

To be fair, STAR WARS also begins in the middle of things with people we don't know. I've been thinking, "Now why did that work but not THE PHANTOM MENACE"? The answer, I think, lies in STAR WARS's simplicity

This is a good point, perhaps the key as to why TPM feels so different to the OT. What possessed Lucas to open what is a series of dumb escapism movies with a blockade and a negotiation? TPM is too tangled up and weighed down with plot. Thats why I like the Tatooine sequence so much, all of that is discarded for a much more streamlined and accessible story of this seemingly dime a dozen kid trying to escape his mundane existance. Y'know, one day you find out you're special, wizards come to see you, you fly off for adventure in a starship...thats Star Wars.

But then we're on Courascant...

"Will you defer your motion to allow a commission to explore the validity of your accusation?"

[Despondent]

"Will you defer your motion to allow a commission to explore the validity of your accusation?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Chefelf]

Changing "Revenge" of the Jedi to "Return" was the first implication George really wasn't in control of his Vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the first time I can remember, I disagree with you, Despondent!

I think this is a good change. While I admit that he was slipping at this point I feel that changing "Revenge" to "Return" was a good move. I think that the implication that the Jedi did what they did out of some kind of revenge is the wrong idea. I do not think that revenge is a virtue that a Jedi should possess.

I admit that I think that the "Revenge" in the title of the new movie is sorta a neat throwback to the original ROTJ title and more in line with the Sith (though I'm still not a huge fan of the concept of the Sith) way of thought.

However, I don't think there will be much else about ROTS that I think that favorably about.

[thrawn]

brb

This post has been edited by thrawn: 24 March 2005 - 09:59 AM

[CowboyCurtis]

You're absolutely right, but what I think Despondent is referring to is the fact that Lucas had CONSIDERED calling it "Revenge." Which says to me that he doesn't even understand his own material. AND I really don't buy this bullshit that it was a "code name" for the movie--- I mean---SERIOUSLY!!! He really expected us to buy that? I thought the "code name" for ROTJ was "Blue Harvest."

Lucas was caught with his pants down, he was too embarrassed and too proud to shake his head and say, "Ah, gee, you're right, I made mistake."

Notice... Lucas never EVER admits to making mistakes. It's somehow the fans fault, or someone else's fault. He can't admit it. This goes for how his characters are written, too. Obi-Wan in ROTJ. He can't just come clean to Luke in ROTJ. Instead of saying, "Luke, I'm sorry I lied to you, but I didn't want you to follow your father down the dark path..." Instead it's "from a certain point of view."

This should've been our first indicator of the bullshititis infecting Lucas and SW.

[thrawn]

For me it all went bad when i found out that they would include the backstory for Boba Fett in Episode II, that completely pissed me off. It was much better when his backround was unknown, it made him mysterious and interesting, thats what made him so cool, and thats why so many fans liked him coz they could all come up with their own ideas about his past. Him being in the prequals destroyed all that.

His insignificance in the SW universe made it very stupid that he received this very important role in the prequals that would affect the entire galaxy forever!!!
It also makes the galaxy feel very small because every well known character is somewhat connected to each other and appears in almost every movie!!!

I mean, at that time I still wasn't keen on Episode I, but this was the icing on the cake.