[Just another wretched fan]

But in my version of the story, Anakin doesn't realise he has children by Amidala, so he has no reason to 'look Owen up'. Let me explain:

Like I said, Anakin sleeps with Padme just before her wedding day. He then storms off and she discovers she's pregnant with twins. In desperation she confesses all to Obi-Wan, who advises her to keep the pregnancy secret until after her marriage and pretend the children are her husband's.

During the following nine months, however, Anakin leaves the Jedi and falls to the Dark Side. When Obi-Wan tells Amidala this, she is terrified of what Anakin will do if he realises the children are his. Obi-Wan suggests they be hidden after their birth, and she agrees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sounds really familiar. Are you familiar with Arthurian legend? Like Uther Pendragon hooked up with Igrain, wife of Gerlois Duke of Cornwall, inside Tintagel Castle. Illegitimate son is is Arthur. I thought about something similar but scratched it.

I like it, but
A. i'm not sure if it would be kid friendly (not that it has to be) or

B. If I like the idea that Anakin just has an affair, b/c

C. It makes him less of a savory character. I want Anakin to be a real imitatable hero.

Now if the affair is with Dark Anakin, that could be interesting because it could make the time table much more sensible. If anakin turns and helps form the empire when he's in his 20's, then impregnants leia 15-20 years later, it gives us 15+20 = 35 years of Empire Instead of just 20 years. For example

Year/Age

0 Anakin Born
10 Train under Obi-Wan
20's Meet girl, romance starts?
23 Empire starts to form, mad fights.
(Empire born)
25ish Romance breaks off, Anakin turns to darkside
Anakin completes Empire
35 to 40' Affair with girl, impregnation

40's to 50's physical mutilation
End PT, Begin OT

It would make Vader 60 when Luke is 20, but he's Jedi so it could make sense. Although I admit its sketchy.

With the way you describe hiding the twins, how does Vader know about Luke if he never knew he was born, or thinks he died? Could you work Palpatine have known? Or does Obi-Wan just tell him in the duel, pissing him off more?

Personally, I don't like the idea of an affair. I'd like to see true love and Anakin be a really cool, good guy we all like. In a totally kid-unfriendly twist of events, I'd have the Sith Apprentice rape and murder her, decimating good-guy Anakin and pushing him over the edge.

Remember the scene in Braveheart right after his wife gets her throat cut and Wallace is all suicidal and ready to kill? Yeah, something like that madness ensues. Or like when Maximus sees his family murdered in Gladiator. That'll turn a good guy bad fast.

*Anakin can think his pregnant wife is dead, but in reality some medical types are able to save her unborn kids.

[CowboyCurtis]

Personally, I don't like the idea of an affair. I'd like to see true love and Anakin be a really cool, good guy we all like. In a totally kid-unfriendly twist of events, I'd have the Sith Apprentice rape and murder her, decimating good-guy Anakin and pushing him over the edge.

It's things like this that don't work for me because if this happens, or Anakin is tortured and maimed, why would the join the likes of the Sith? He'd just become his own Dark Jedi rather than join them out of a dark obligation (i.e., Palpatine saving Anakin from the molten pit). And rape is a darker/grittier concept than an illicit affair.

Now that I've had time to think about it, I think I'd like to see a "real" relationship between Anakin and Padme, rather than a hidden one. They don't necessarily have to be married.

Helena's idea of Bail marrying Padme works pretty well. If he's already king (and he ought to be since Leia is a Princess), then we don't have to deal with the whole "Queen" aspect that Lucas wanted to set up (altho I thought I had an interesting means of explaining that...I'll tell later, and I'll give reasons why it should be that way).

If they are to marry, I think it ought to be to protect Amidala, that Amidala doesn't cheat on Bail. Bail by the end of (I'm figuring Episode II), is told that Amidala is pregnant, and believes that Anakin is dead. To protect her, Bail takes her as his wife and to give the child/children a legitimate father. (I'll get to the rest later. There are many questions yet to answer here).

But, I've got to run....

It's amazing the number of angles you can go at it here.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 09 March 2005 - 09:01 AM

[Helena]

This sounds really familiar. Are you familiar with Arthurian legend? Like Uther Pendragon hooked up with Igrain, wife of Gerlois Duke of Cornwall, inside Tintagel Castle. Illegitimate son is is Arthur. I thought about something similar but scratched it.

I like it, but
A. i'm not sure if it would be kid friendly (not that it has to be) or

B. If I like the idea that Anakin just has an affair, b/c

C. It makes him less of a savory character. I want Anakin to be a real imitatable hero.

No, I'm not familiar with Arthurian legend, but it doesn't surprise me that this particular plot device has been used before. There's nothing new under the sun... Anyway, as to your other points:

A. It wouldn't be hugely 'kid-friendly', but I don't really think you can tell the story of a good man who becomes evil, a devastating war, the fall of an ancient democracy and a large-scale massacre in a 'kid-friendly' manner. This is one of the reasons why Lucas's prequels are so awful - in trying to orient them towards kids, he makes them impossible to take seriously.
B. It wouldn't technically be an 'affair' at this point as Amidala is not married yet. Besides, it's she who's being unfaithful, not Anakin. No, he shouldn't put her in that position, but the point is that being deeply in love often causes people to act very selfishly - which is precisely why it's so dangerous for Jedi to fall in love.
C. Yes, he should be a hero. But he has to be a flawed hero, otherwise his fall to the Dark Side makes no sense. Like I've said many times before, his transformation should be slow and gradual - having him as this perfect Marty-Stu hero who suddenly goes beserk and turns into a genocidal psychopath is neither plausible nor interesting.
At this point in my story, Anakin would have already started down the path to the Dark Side. He's been fighting what seems like a pointless, unwinnable war for years; he's seen many of his friends die; he's becoming angry, bitter and disillusioned. Then he discovers that the woman he loves, and who promised to wait for him, is about to marry someone else - and this 'betrayal' is the final straw. He leaves the Jedi and the war, and is left drifting aimlessly, looking for a new purpose in life - which, of course, is where the Sith step in.

With the way you describe hiding the twins, how does Vader know about Luke if he never knew he was born, or thinks he died? Could you work Palpatine have known? Or does Obi-Wan just tell him in the duel, pissing him off more?

Vader doesn't know about Luke until he destroys the Death Star in ANH. After noting his strength in the Force, and presumably finding out afterwards that his name is Skywalker, it wouldn't be hard to put two and two together. All he'd have to do is make a few enquiries to find out about Luke's background, and then 'search his feelings' to confirm that this is his son.

Personally, I don't like the idea of an affair. I'd like to see true love and Anakin be a really cool, good guy we all like. In a totally kid-unfriendly twist of events, I'd have the Sith Apprentice rape and murder her, decimating good-guy Anakin and pushing him over the edge.

Yes, that would indeed be far more 'kid-unfriendly' than an affair, and frankly I think it would be way over the top. Admittedly I've written about a rape (or rather, the aftermath of one) in one of my own SW fanfics, but I really don't think that kind of thing belongs in the movies. Besides, as I explained earlier, I don't like the idea of Anakin just getting 'pushed over the edge' - that could be part of his fall to the Dark Side, but by itself it's not enough.


CC, about the Queen thing: Padme becomes Queen after her father dies. After he married her, Bail would be 'Prince Consort' or something like that - that's how it usually works with royal families. Our Queen's husband is Prince Phillip, not King Phillip.

[Chefelf]

Good points all around.

1.) I don't think I'll open a new forum, at least not yet. I think rewrite stuff could be started in individual topics here for the time being. I could be convinced if there is a "need" but I don't know if there is one yet.

2.) I just want to agree that I think the word "Darth" being a title is really, really lame as well. Also, the "always two, there are" thing is really annoying as well.

[Lord Aquaman]

I just want to agree that I think the word "Darth" being a title is really, really lame as well.  Also, the "always two, there are" thing is really annoying as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I always assumed that Obi-Wan calling Darth Vader "Darth" during their ANH duel was just a flub by Alec Guinness, who I imagine had not been informed by Lucas as to what "Darth" meant. And for the record, I always thought what he said was "You're only a master of evil now." rather than "You're only a master of evil Darth."

Also has anyone ever noticed that during the duel Obi-Wan's lightsaber ceases to be an actual saber for a moment and starts looking like a twig? Was that an special effects error or was it intentional?

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 09 March 2005 - 01:13 PM

[Helena]

I always assumed that Obi-Wan calling Darth Vader "Darth" during their ANH duel was just a flub by Alec Guinness, who I imagine had not been informed by Lucas as to what "Darth" meant. And for the record, I always thought what he said was "You're only a master of evil now." rather than "You're only a master of evil Darth."

He does say 'Darth'. But to be honest, I don't find this to be a big issue. Yes, it does appear that Lucas originally intended it as a name, but I don't really care that he chose to make it a title instead - at least it's better than 'Moff', which sounds more like a name you'd give your pet bunny rabbit than the title of a military leader. (And yes, I've heard the idea that 'Moff' is based on a real-life title; it still sounds incredibly stupid.)

[Mad Rabbit]

But Helena, if you put a Grand in front of the title Moff, now it sounds incredible! GRAND MOFF! A regal title if I've ever heard one. Make way for Grand Moff Fuzzykins... on second thought it still sounds pretty lame.

[barend]

I see nobody liked my rewrite....


and chefelf: 'Darth Vader' is dutch for 'Death Father'

why every one else has darth as a first name is beyond me?
cause it means that Vader was the first person to have prefix of Darth that was valid!!!

Darth Sideous (a dutch word followed by half an english word)
Darth Maul (a redundant name if ever there were one - Death maul)
"Hi, i'm Death Maul, as in; i'm going to kill you, then hurt you!"
Darth Tyranus: "I am DEATH!!! and i'm tyranical about it!"

'Darth Reven' is actually dutch for 'Death Reef'
but i suspect that is a coincidence as Malak means fuck all as far as i can tell.

[CowboyCurtis]

I thought it was funny! I would prefer that than be subjected to the horror we're experiencing now.

You know, I want to continue this rewrite discussion, but I come to the realization that everyone has a different view of how these prequels should go--and that's cool! It certainly has given me a lot to think about.

However, this rewrite thing is cyclical for me. I mad at Lucas, I pick up my re-writes, draw some pictures, get frustrated when I hear new rumors, etc., etc., then I give up, and then it all starts over again. I can't ever finish it because i know deep down it is so POINTLESS! This is Star Wars whether we like or not.

And I have to stop spending so much of my energy and time on it. I want to do what someone had suggested earlier---start your own saga! Start your own stories--and you know--THEY'RE RIGHT! Rather than focus on someone else's doomed franchise, I really ought to start one of my own.

So, I'm going to try and purge myself of this Star Wars nonsense, even if it means not thinking about the old movies anymore (because you know, they "don't exist" anymore anyway). Lucas doesn't want me. I don't want him.

Sigh. Well, I'll be back, I'm sure from time to time, especially after the release of Episode III (which isn't really that far away).

Take care, folks.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 10 March 2005 - 12:44 PM

[Helena]

Please don't go, CC. We need you here. Like I said, try playing Knights of the Old Republic... all the stories I've written have been based on that, rather than the PT or even the OT. Give it a chance, at least.

[Just another wretched fan]

However, this rewrite thing is cyclical for me.  I mad at Lucas, I pick up my re-writes, draw some pictures, get frustrated when I hear new rumors, etc., etc., then I give up, and then it all starts over again.  I can't ever finish it because i know deep down it is so POINTLESS!  This is Star Wars whether we like or not.

Take care, folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I figure that if i can frankenstein a cool script together I can get an artist friend to illustrate it into a web comic.

If its good enough the despondant SW fans out there could check out and maybe get excited about a great story explaining the fall of anakin skywalker

[CowboyCurtis]

How can I leave when Helena asks so nicely.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, I'm gonna try to get back into this.

Recently, at TheForce.net, a poster, NeimodianReport, had this to say about his vision of the Jedi, and I think this is a good interpretation of the Jedi as they should've been in the prequels:


That's a tough one to answer with a hard number, given that it depends on our own opinions of number of planets/total population of the SW universe. I can only really answer by positing a rate of incidence between the Jedi and the general population of a given world. Using that metric, I would say that an average person would have certainly heard of them, but may have only seen one or two in their whole life, and then mainly in times of crisis that necessitated their presence. Beyond that, they may have seen one strictly in passing, as a Jedi wanders the galaxy. Like many here in the BS, I envisoned the Jedi as a loosely confederated group of warrior monks.

Because they are so rarely seen, I figured the general citizenry would conceive of them as barely understood mystics, inspiring both reverence and fear across the galaxy. Now, I don't want this statement to be misunderstood. I do not mean that they should unduly harsh or unkind, but simply little known (and as we all know, we fear what is unfamiliar to us). They would be seen dealing with political leaders during times of conflict or crisis, and be known to single-handedly effect great change in situations. They don't make public speeches, they merely show up and resolve things beyond the sight of most of the public. Their unquestioned effectiveness, coupled with the myserious nature of their methods and powers (since the public doesn't see what exactly they do) would give them a great reputation across the galaxy. Thus, their legend grows...

But this doesn't mean they are above the "rabble". As I said earlier, they can also occasionally be seen traveling, and during this time, I think they should absolutely be helping out on a small scale as well. As a matter of fact, most of their time should be spent traveling, learning, and helping people, summoned to planetary level emergencies only periodically. Tales of Jedi helping out strangers as they travel would certainly augment their reputation and enhance their aura.

I think their relative scarcity coupled with their essentially "legendary" status means that when they disappear from the galaxy, with a generation or so people would be questioning how much truth lay in the Jedi "myth". Many would still know the truth behind the power of the Jedi; but for many, knowing only of the fearsome jedi through rumors, they could conceivably question whether or not they really were everything they were commonly believed to be. I think this would explain some of the ambivalence towards the Jedi "relgion" in ANH. Some of the officers scoff at Vader and the force, and subsequently act surprised when he chokes Motti, but others (like Tarkin) know all too well what a Jedi is capable of.

Maybe it's my own hubris, but I think this jives with the OT a bit better than the PT Jedis for several reasons. One, it shows the Jedi to be both A) good and effective. The PT shows neither of these things. Instead, they are A) blithe to the point of enabling evil and borderline criminally incompetent. Secondly, it makes the Jedi more rare, thus easier to "purge", and also making their role as Generals make more sense (although ROTJ has certainly watered down the title of General). Third, when gone, they are more easily resigned to the dustbin of myth by the public within twenty years. I don't see how this can happen when thousands of them occupied one of the (if not the) tallest and most visible buildings in the galactic capital. Also, don't they test people in the Republic? And if ANH is about 20 years after AOTC/ROTS, wouldn't anyone 20 and over in the OT remember getting tested by the Jedi? And if they were tested as infants, wouldn't most parents remember the midichlorian testing that was done on everyone? As it is now, it just doesn't stand to reason that they are forgotten so quickly...

[Helena]

Yes, I like that idea of the Jedi. It still wouldn't really explain why they seem to have been virtually forgotten by the time of the OT - they appear to have played an important role in the Clone Wars, after all, and people like Admiral Motti should certainly be able to remember them. But it certainly makes a lot more sense than what we see in the PT.

On the other hand, I also quite like the idea of the Jedi taking a more active role in society, as in KOTOR. But KOTOR was 4000 years before the movies; like I said, their power and influence could have declined considerably since then. It could well be that they'd retreated into themselves somewhat, increasing their 'mythique' but also people's suspicion and mistrust of them, as described above.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, my next question is where do you think Obi-Wan came from?

(I ought to really have a poll)

Do you think he ought to have come from Tatooine? Alderaan? Should this be mentioned at all? Is it important?

In rewrites I made the planet of importance Alderaan rather than Naboo, and Obi-Wan came from Alderaan. This would explain why Bail knows him, and couple this with the idea of the jedi above, Obi-Wan is legendary.

This is why Leia seeks him out, because she's heard stories of him, he's a legend on her home world.