[Despondent]

No, not all of them. Half of them.

[Xombie]

Aquaman,

When you say Titanic doesn't come anywhere close to matching the high quality of the first Terminator movie, what exactly do you mean?

I know I'm going to disagree with you. I just don't know how yet.

[Just your average movie goer]

I think he's referring to the fact (and it is a fact) that Titanic is a shitty formulaic, dull and uninspired movie, while the first Terminator was something extraordinary.

[barend]

Thats what it is. It can transcend that, if you're up for it of course, the same goes for any work. But at its core, the fact is that they're all dumb movies about space wizards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i know you believ there is no drop in quality from OT to PT, and i constantly argue it with you as does everyone...

but at the end of the day...
Jariten is totally on the ball there... and i can't argue against it...

i just liked the OT cause it was facinating, it was a good yarn, and had lazer swords in it... that's all...
(and i liked the actors)

[Xombie]

"Shitty" "dull" and "uninspired" are words too purely subjective to argue over. I will, however, take issue with the use of the word "formulaic."
There's no reason a movie can't be formulaic and extraordinary at the same time. Look at John Woo's Hong Kong gangster films. In the case of the Terminator I think both those words fit as well. The Terminator is a damned good B movie but at its heart it is still just a B movie and a very formulaic one at that and the formula couldn't be simpler: Monster chases girl, hero tries to stop monster. Terminator's plot is really nothing more than a series of action sequences strung together by scenes of story revelation (why is this happening? How do we stop it?) that empower the girl to ultimately kill the monster.
That the plot is simple and formulaic is not a knock. Quite the contrary, Cameron works within the narrow confines masterfully and makes the same old same old seem new.
But it is still formulaic. Even when compared to Titanic.

[Just your average movie goer]

Okay, it's a little formulaic. However, the premise was fairly new at the time.

As for Titanic, it's hard for me to judge the film kindly. They wasted US$300 Million on that film, building an enormous replica ship and what have you - and a mediocre result came out of it.

The characters are 2-dimensional and mostly lifeless. The guys at the start of the film are incredibly annoying. The plot is very simplistic as are the ideas it presents in it -> like poor = good and rich = bad.

For the actors, Cathy Bates turned in a good performance (as is always the case with her) but no-one else was particularly strong... although I could tell Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet were trying.

Also, the way it tries to be so damn clever all the time and fails is really annoying.

"Picasso... ha. Nothing will ever become of him."

Har dee har har har. How clever we are!

[Despondent]

Yes, the Picasso reference was pretty lame. Don't fall for that, it's a Jedi mind trick.


But I'll disagree they wasted all that money.

I'm sure the film employed many people from set designers to the guys who disrupt the credits, waiting to clean the house. The backers made that money back and then some.
Including the praise of many critics. Fine, we'll acknowlege it's detractors as well.


Plus, the film was a good date and a lot of people had fun together watching it. Sprint long distance got me as a customer and I got a free video. There's a lot of trickle-down from that iceberg of a hundred years ago.

Say the $300 or whatever million had been spent gambling? That would be a waste.
happens all the time.

[barend]

"Picasso... ha.  Nothing will ever become of him."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the captain takes a sip of his whiskey and starts drinking... suddenly he's choking... the first mate rushes to his aid, appling the heimlich manouvre...
the ice cube catipults accross the floor.
captain: "oh, ice... you'll be the death of me."

titanic sucked... but at least he didn't do that.

but that picasso remark was a little close...

This post has been edited by barend: 01 February 2005 - 12:19 AM

[Xombie]

Once Upon a Time In the West begins with three hired killers waiting for train. They don't say anything. They don't do anything that advances the plot in any way. They serve no plot function other than to introduce us to Bronson's character and his gunfighting ability. Shortly after the scene they are gone from the movie. The waiting scene takes a full TEN MINUTES! What could be simpler? And yet, its one of the most fascinating ten minutes ever committed to cinema.

There's nothing wrong with simple in film as long as the film is not simplER than it needs to be to get across its central idea. Occam's razor applies just as well in art (and entertainment) as it does in science.

As for rich=bad poor=good theme. Um...Empire=bad Rebels=good, remember that one? Or Robots from the future=bad Humans from the future=good?

Titanic is a class war film. And a damn good one. In real life those parasitical sons of priviliged bitches really did claim first dibs on those lifeboats. Let no one cry for their sullied reputations.