[barend]

these things you hold dear slade that we will tear down...
these things that we oppose that you hofmarn, you oppose us for opposing, means you oppose our opposal of pollution, unneccessary war, cancer, high tax, corruption, dangerous drivers, and malicious ignorance in general...

well if these are the things you hold dear...



and slade, thankyou for voting... if you look to your left, you'll notice there is only one exit to the polling booth hall, where incidentally some very large men are waiting...

This post has been edited by barend: 27 January 2005 - 08:06 PM

[J m HofMarN]

That reminds me, I think we need to create community police forces, the first of which will be tasked with protecting the constitutional congress. You'll now notice that some even larger men have popped up to assure that voting is free and uninhibited, regardless of who votes are cast in favor of.

[barend]

oh, it's going to be like that is it...

the men leave...











...a suspicious looking bag on the ground, as they walk away.

[Slade]

Slade slips out unnoticed, except for the slight ruffle of his cape that is momentarily aroused by the wind outside. His smouldering emerald gaze turns to diamond as a group of level twenty bodyguards approach him, barely visible due to the torrential downpour. With a curse to turn a sailor red in the face, Slade throws a die twenty while drawing his shadowsteel claymore, hoping for a saving throw to lose the thugs in a side alley with his Evade skill. He hopes that bag was worth the trouble...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Lets try to keep this debating, eh?

Anywho...

Your strong arm tactics only further our resolve! And it's not that we oppose the issues, it's the form of government. A ruthless dictatorship that can impress its every whim upon the people, or a bunch of nice guys pondering over what to do and involving the people? We know you're not just some stupid sheep. These guys are looking at you like a group of mindless zombies. Are you going to take that, or are you going to support us?

[J m HofMarN]

-Being a good citizen of debatia I have the bag sent straightaway to the headquarters of the SupCorBar coalition since I saw Barend's thugs leave it.-

Alright that said, I think we need to forget about Barend and his badn of sore losers and get back to forming a stable government. Remember, a vote for our alliance is a vote for freedom. Also, I hear madam Corvax's quangos contain razor blades.

[Madam Corvax]

Buhahahahaha!

I knew it, I knew it. The first thing JM is doing is setting up the police forces and army!

You see! Not education, not tax policy, not welfare scheme, not even foreign affair policy! For heaven’s sake, he is not even setting up the parliament first!

It is the control over people that he wants. And he is just pulling wool over your eyes, people! He says now that nobody will serve more than two terms but you just wait until he controls the police forces. What’s stopping him then to change into dictator!

And sorry, Winnetou, if you are serious about letting Hannibal into the government I will emigrate. Because much as I welcome minorities there is one minority I just can’t stand – troll minority. I gather than by “interesting” you just mean completely self-centered, not caring about people’s opinion, ruthless and insensitive? Then I am out, folks. I will just sit back and see your Debatia becoming police state under the joint rule of Hannibal and JM. You’ll be the laughing stock of all neighbouring countries.

And I am serious about bringing up the issue of not letting women into government.

And JM, thanks for remaining me - I am still in control of quangos, right? Good, means that you can't do anything concerning money and economy without my support anyway

[J m HofMarN]

Well if your evil would be dictator wasnt destabilizing my govenrment I surely would. I havnt even been confirmed as prime minister yet! I actually think it would be a fine idea to give Hannibal a position in the government, however I could negotiate on this if you were to consider reigning in your pet Barend.

And yes... for the moment you control the quangos... I wish I knew what quangos were...

[Madam Corvax]

JM, surely you mean "rein in" rather than "reign in", but anyway, I won't do that. He still controls the majority of the armed forces and is you oppose him, he will unleash hell upon you.

Why, you are not a prime minister yet? After SEVEN pages of debating?

Anyway, if you ever consider giving power to Hannibal, the first thing I will do is to stop the supply of oil and gas to the country. THis is just a thread, but I am well capable of carrying it off.

[J m HofMarN]

We dont have an official military yet madam, Barend just controls some crack addicts with big sticks. Our police forces are well capable of stopping them. And you're in no way in charge of our energy, so if you intend to stop the flow of needed supplies with terrorism I shall have to arrest you.

[Madam Corvax]

*smiles sweetly*
Youa re very much mistaken, sir if you think I will resort to brutal forces. I am a woman, what sort of force am I capabe to exercise? Think is, since Debatia has fallen into the state of chaos and is controlled by police, it has somehow forgotten to pay the bill for the supplies. Now, the guys who owe the company are good friends of mine. They are rather pissed at the fact that they haven't been paid. and if I ask them sweetly they might budge.

But they won't do it is you arrest me. And you can't arrest them now can you? On what grounds?
Aah, I know - on the grounds that Debatia has ceased to be a country of law and you just can do what you want?

And as a matter of fact on what grounds do you threaten to arrest me? Look at this ruthless usurper, who threats innocent women!

[Madam Corvax]

Ah, and for anyone not understaning the word quango, here is the link to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quango

[Supes]

Hey ho all! Just back from a tour of duty baby kissing and photo shoots for the SupCorBar Summer Calendar and T-Shirt line.

Now I've been seeing an awful lot of talking running around here and I think people are somewhat missing the point. As Madam and Barend have pointed out, we are completely open in our interests, but I'll come back to my original resons for becoming a dictator in the first place.

In all reality the things you are striving for Mr. Hoffman are exactly the sme things that I intended to implement. Contrary to the idea that a dictatorship is going to stiffle freedom in any way I am advocating a completely open and transparent government. We not only encourage freedom of speech, for example, we insist upon it. Where many dictatorships have failed is that the dictator is in it for him/herself and fails to listen to his or her people. This is something that I will not allow to happen.

It was brought to the attention of all by Slade I believe that it was not possble for the entire community to decide upon the laws etc, this realistically needs to be done by a few. However, it does not need to be done without the majority input. We the Triumvirate will propose ideas and standpoints, but in the face of major opposition (that is the majority) we will look to revise these so that they are in keeping with the general consensus of the population. I believe Madam Corvax has done an excellent job in highlighting the areas that are of most concern to us. I cannot really say the same fo the opposition.

Now, you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I can tell you you can please most of the people all of the time so long as you listen. And I'm all about listening.

We do not represent oppression or subjagation in any way. Sure Barend talks tough, but it's from his deep deated desire to see a perfect world and the happiness of all.

A vote for SupCorBar "IS" a vote for freedom! Incidenatally, the t-shirts and calandars are reasonably priced and I have been growing my hair so that should please all around Obviously I'm casting my vote for the Triumvirate. I also have it on good authority that when Jordan pops back in he'll be with us along with his good friend Civillian #2. Also likely to be squarely in our camp are Just Your Average Movie Goer and Helena. But I will confirm these for you shortly.

[Slade]

The problem is that there's nothing to stop future dictators from imposing tyranny. It depends on the size of the nation as to whether it should be a Democracy or a Republic, since the most prevalent - or at least most cited - reason for the switch is efficiency of government. The entire country can't just stop everything it's doing for days at a time to debate every proposition that comes along. If everyone spent their time debating, no one would ever do anything else! Imagine a world where every person spent the entire day arguing with one another instead of working, or stealing, or physically fighting. It's absurd.

SupCoBer - If you're as pure in your interests as you sound, why don't you just run for a parlimentary office and serve some terms? Then the people wouldn't have to be worrying about your corruption and the decay of the country into a typical oligarchy?

We're discussing a form of government here. The spoils that form of government are going to supposedly give to the people should have nothing to do with the said form of government. Supes, your argument boils down to this: "Pick the triumverate dictatorship, because we're with you on the issues! Those crazy SlaLecHofJMLaughs haven't even said what they are going to do!" Give us a good reason to support the form of government before you go around saying what your government will do. Can we keep on the subject at hand for two seconds?

Edit: Redundancy and this thought: I love that word "quangos"! I'd almost want to be in one just to say "Yeah... I'm in a quango... whaddaya gonna do about it, PUNK?!" Ciggarette drag optional.

This post has been edited by Slade: 28 January 2005 - 09:46 AM

[Madam Corvax]

Well, Slade, it’s a good question why not run for parliament? Here is my answer.

Firstly, I’d rather be in a good company of people who I trust. I’ve known Barend for a long time and I share his opinions in many points. And Supes asked me to join the triumvirate, and you just don’t refuse a guy who looks like Daniel Day-Lewis.

Secondly, after reading your discussion I saw you were dragged in a dangerous discussion by Hannibal, who is by all means the most derstructive force that has ever visited this forum. Yet, despite him being mean, anti-social and totally impregnable to constructive criticism, you all actually listen to him, as if his very person charmes you no end. I bet if you would establish you “democratic” government you would succumb to his charms and give him something, at least to keep him happy, so he wouldn’t bother you – you said as much yourself.

I simply could not agree to this.

And knowing JM, I knew that sooner or later he would come up with some dangerous anarichists ideas, and my fears were fully confirmed by his threat to arrest me.

So, in short – you did not persent any program. You were in danger of putting the country into chaos.

And there was not even one woman among you.

Sorry, Slade, but in democracy you give ultimate power to a bunch of anonymous “party representatives” who only care about their particular interests. If you believe otherwise, then you are just mistaken. Now, I really care. I really care about welfare, commuters, low taxes, mortgage rates, health care, because I’ve been through this myself. Dangerous ilness, hospitals, operations, unemployment, commuting to work every day and getting up at 5.30, being robbed of my hard-earned money by taxes, just trying to get by, while the “authorities” who are allegedly chosen by me just don’t give a damn.

But if you rather give power to Hannibal –suit yourself. But as I said, I’ll emigrate. At least here I have this option, which I don't in real life.

[Slade]

So we're essentially fighting the same battle. Each side feels that the other will horribly misrepresent the ideals that it is trying to uphold. You are choosing the evil you know over the evil you don't, I've been trying to choose less of a chance of total anihilation of basic human liberties than a guarantee of it.

If you were part of the government you could give a damn. We're talking about members of the forum being elected here, and setting up a system involving them. I believe the goal was more of a "What if we set up a system that wasn't full of the fallacys that the current ones are, and how would we do it?" You could be the voice of reason that says "Hey, you're giving the people the shaft if you do that." When our democracy starts heading down the descent into a rule by the ruling class, of the ruling class, and of the ruling class.

Edit: What does Hannibal have to do with anything?

This post has been edited by Slade: 28 January 2005 - 04:43 PM