[Despondent]

In case you didn't know, Lucas writes Qui-Gons dialogue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Don't listen to my cry for help! Listen to MEEEE!"

[Helena]

If it's the absolute number of Midichlorians that counts, then what you guys have been saying is right - size should matter. If it's the ratio of Midichlorians to body cells which counts, losing a limb shouldn't make any difference. If it's somehow a combination of the two, Anakin should still be considerably more powerful than Yoda even with several limbs missing, and on average you'd expect to see a clear relationship between someone 's height and weight and their power in the Force. We can't ignore what Lucas says, because he's stated that Anakin loses Force power as his limbs are hacked off, which presumably means that this will be an important plot element in the next movie.

Jesus, I can't believe I'm having this conversation. I'm starting to feel like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. Does anyone else remember when the Force was something cool and spiritual and mysterious, and we didn't have to have discussions like this?

While we're on the subject, however, I should point out that this revelation makes it even more stupid that neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda tells Luke about Midichlorians. They don't even mention that losing body parts can decrease your Force ability - a piece of knowledge you'd have thought would be pretty damn important. Honestly, what with this and the Leia thing, I'm starting to wonder if Lucas is doing this on purpose - that his contempt for the OT is so great, he's deliberately introducing all this stuff that can't possibly be reconciled with what we see in the original movies. Surely he can't really have failed to notice all the blatant continuity errors he's throwing up?

[Despondent]

"he's throwing up." Nicely put.

here's some info I found on midis. Reminds me of my D&D days:

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
Yoda = 17,700
Luke Skywalker = 14,500
Leia Organa Solo = 14,500
Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200
Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900
Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700
Ben (Jhon) Skywalker = 13,700
Anakin Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 13,700
Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500
Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400
Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250
Kyle Katarn = 12,200
Mace Windu = 12,000
Darth Maul = 12,000
General Grievous (New Episode 3 Villain) = 11,900
Kit Fisto = 11,800
Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War) = 11,700
Shindor = 11,500 (Dark Jedi from Episode 7)
Yaddle = 11,300
Xanatos' (Qui-Gon Jinn's former apprentice) = 11,300
Darth Seer (Founder of the modern Sith Order) = 11,200
Plo Koon = 11,100
Mara Jade = 11,000
Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic video game) = 10,800
Jedi Master Corran Horn (from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700
Ki Adi Mundu = 10,600
Darth Bane = 10,500
Nebar Foxis (Jedi Knight played by SuperShadow in Episode 3) = 10,400
Joruus C'baoth = 10,350
Darth Imperius (Darth Sidious' Master) = 10,300
Shaak Ti = 10,300
Tahari Vehlia (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,300
Echuu-Shen Jon = 10,200
Darth Revan = 10,200 (Knights of the Old Republic video game)
Jedi Master Kam Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,100
Aalya Secura = 10,000
Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000
Average Jedi = 10,000
Assajj Ventress = 9,600
Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400
Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300
Jacen Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Jaina Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Jedi Master Cihgal (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000
Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 8,500
Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi) = 8,400
Xio Jade = 7,400
Chewbacca = 7,200
Tylus Liv = 7,100
Aurra Sing = 7,000
Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000
Padme Amidala = 4,700
Danni Quee (New Jedi Order Jedi Scientist)= 4,500
Beru Lars = 3,700
Shmi = 3,300
Lando Calrissian = 3,300
Boba Fett= 1,500
Han Solo = 1,500
Jango Fett = 1,500
Owen Lars = 1,500

[Helena]

Jesus Christ. Who the hell came up with that, and how? Somehow I doubt it's officially sanctioned.

[Despondent]

it was that supershadow guy. He claims to be an insider. It's gonna be dismal anyway, so you can purportedly read ROTS plots and info there.

[Helena]

This just gets stupider all the time. How the hell would you work out someone's exact Midichlorian count from a blood sample? Do you have to somehow work out the average number of Midis per cell and then multiply it by the estimated number of cells in the body (in which case, if the answer is in the thousands, the average must be considerably less than one Midichlorian per cell)?

I always assumed that the 'Midichlorian count' thing referred to an estimate of the number of Midichlorians per cell, which would at least have made some sense. Now we're supposed to believe that you're born with a certain fixed number, amounting to only a fraction of a Midi for each cell in the body, even though all cells are supposed to contain the things? You know, I give up - this is completely and utterly insane.

[Paladin]

here's some info I found on midis. Reminds me of my D&D days:

Ayup, sounds like Lucas alright!!!

I can't believe this stuff. How could ANYBODY do this?

When I was a kid, Star Wars was great. Fantastic. And even better at times. Now that I've read through the whole of this discussion so far, I just realize that there's no humanly possible way I can imagine it going down any lower. How can you do this to what was once the greatest Sci-fi series of all time? How? Why? :angry:

[not this crude matter]

The good thing is i doubt they will mention this in ROTS. Also I doubt the emperor when rescuing vader in ep3 he will yell at him for losing his midichlorians. Therefore we can just ignore this statement by Lucas and pretend he never said it.

This post has been edited by not this crude matter: 17 January 2005 - 09:00 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Not this crude matter- You underestimate the immaturity of the Lucas side...

Despondent- Dear god that reminds me of websites I looked at when I was a kid and liked DBZ-

"Woah! Super form six Anakin has a highter Midichlorian count than ultimate form Mace Windu! COOL!"

Also...

"Beru Lars = 3,700
Shmi = 3,300
Lando Calrissian = 3,300"

So Lando is just as likely to conceive a child by midichlorians as Shmi? And Beru is MORE likely? What?

[njamilla]

Not this crude matter

Yeah, I thought "size matters not"

I just read the Vanity Fair article and the gist was that the Emperor converted Vader because he thought he was getting the most powerful person to join his side. Then throw in Obi-Wan who defigures and wrecks Anakin, thus destroying his "prize". Apparently, according to Lucas (and we don't have to listen to him), this is the reason he goes after Luke -- he wants a new powerful Jedi, not some weak Jedi-cum-Sith as his new apprentice.

I find it rather silly that everyone presumes that the Jedi pecking order is decided by lightsaber skill. Why is it that Yoda has to be "better" in the Force and in lightsaber fighting than Mace? Wisdom, experience, time devoted to service, unique talents, new ideas, etc. Why aren't these things important?

The answer, again, like someone else above, it takes me back to my D&D days, it's because people get off on the quantifiable. You've got to have hit points (or Midi-chlorian counts) to determine a pecking order. People do it in sports all the time; they look for some tangible as a measure of worth.

[barend]

well, fighting general grevious should be a peice of piss...

he's ecencially a brain wrapped in machine...
brain: 80% water, 20%pink goey crap with a swarming mass of grey goey muck...

there are a couple veins in there but... you know...

GG should die quite easily then... if lucas wants his remark to holf true... GG should have a count of about 0.0002 (well below the legal limmit) and therefore should be killed by a precariously placed bucket in a janitors closet that falls out at an inopportune time...

fuck lucas and his hairbrained scemes... he's just making it up as he goes along...

honestly... luke was betten by vader... lost a hand then beat vader...

explain that you ass monkey lucas, or cram a bastard in it!!!

[Helena]

Well, if it's not going to be in the film then why did Lucas bother mentioning it? And if Vader's Force powers were pretty much destroyed by his injuries, why the hell did the Emperor bother making him his apprentice? Aaarrrgh. I hate you, Lucas. :angry:

[The Scornful Roman]

"he's throwing up." Nicely put.

here's some info I found on midis. Reminds me of my D&D days:

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
Yoda = 17,700

Whoah, whoah. Now, I know that this isn't official, but how can Anakin/Vader be more powerful than Palpatine? What would stop Vader from simply out-Forcing ol' Palpy and taking over (as is hinted in ESB?)

And how the heck does this whole Midriclorian thing square with Yoda's words of 'Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter." That statement seems to suggest that the Force is a spiritual, supernatural thing. (Although perhaps the lines in TPM could just be taken at face value and one could assume that the midris simply enable one to 'hear' the Force?)

[azerty]

Vader on the Death Star - doesn't he force-choke what's his name with his right hand, the hand he doesn't have? What's with that? It shouldn't work!

As for the old neck choke - what a weak way to use an awesome power. Here's a
better idea; why doesn’t he just put a permanent squeeze on their lower colon? Make their digestive system run in reverse or something! It would be very amusing to watch Admiral Ozzel spewing projectile turds from his esophagus just before his head explodes– now THAT will motivate the rest of 'em.

[The Scornful Roman]

As for the old neck choke - what a weak way to use an awesome power.  Here's a
better idea;  why doesn’t he just put a permanent squeeze on their lower colon?  Make their digestive system run in reverse or something!  It would be very amusing to watch Admiral Ozzel spewing projectile turds from his esophagus just before his head explodes– now THAT will motivate the rest of 'em.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now THAT'S just GROSS.