[J m HofMarN]

I'm gay, I'm a muslim, I'm a catholic, I'm greek kiss me t-shirts are lame to begin with and should be ban.

So people shouldn't be able to have pride in their identity?

Some fag can't wear a t-shirt to school and its the top of the headlines.

I believe its already agreed that American media is completely Americacentric because all the American public (generally spealing) cares about are good caucasian Americans. However I disagree that this has no effect on anything. The ACLU has sent me letters of support, has helped gain permits for rallies I've attended and they're also leading the battle to stop the torture and secret murders. They NEED to be in the news as much as possible.

And, hey, something like this is a GREAT message. They're helping this kid out and showing us all that the little guy (whether it's a protester, a fifth grader or a Saudi citizen who was snatched from his home) has rights and can fight back. That's a damned fine message and it needs to get out there. If this kid and his classmates say that they can beat the authorities in school and gain their rights to freedom of exp​ression and individuality there then they're going to take the same stance out in the real world. This is a very positive thing and I would very much like to see more of this.

Thanks for showing us the pictures that hurt the ENTIRE IMAGE of the US army!

Jordan- I have friends who are in the army. That dosn't hurt their image in my eyes at all. However these images are the truth and they're not even HALF as bad as some things Hannibal might have posted. Go to Aljazeera.net go to reuters or bbc or any non-US news source and you're likely to find pictures of Iraqi kids with no arms, whole families burnt and mutilated, torture and murder all purpetrated in the name of Bush's hegemony. I support the posting of pictures like this and I'm glad that people portray this war as what it really is. I hope that people see this and decide not to join the storm troopers. It'll be one less pawn on Bush's board and I consider that a victory for the resistance.

Why should private schools be the only organizations churning out diciplined (sp?) kids.

Jordan, do yourself a favor and watch the video of "The Wall" That's an English private school and that's what some of its alumnis thought of it. You can do whatever you want to crush individuality and free will. I think public schools try hard enough but every once in a while they spit out a failure. I'm damned bloody well proud to be a failure of the system.

What is this teaching them? They can get whatever they want by putting up a fight?

Forgive me but... that is... STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! BOLLOCKS!

Akhem. Sorry. That's precisely the message I hope every kid gets and I don't see whats wrong with it. You SHOULD fight for your rights and do what you believe in and question authority. Hey, the founders of our country did it. They all went to school and sung God Save the Queen and crap but they wandered why and they "got whatever they wanted by putting up a fight" So, yeah, I hope everyone learns that lesson.

As for wearing your lifestyle on your sleeve there were tons of "hurray for Christianity" "hurray for being preppy wusses and not doing drugs" "hurray for America" "hurray for hunting" ETC. Shirts in my school. And amid that sea of opposing view points I don't think it hurts to wear your own. You cannot oppress peoples voices simply because they're not popular. And how are we supposed to tolerate other lifestyles if they're too scared of other people to actually say what they are?

Being gay is not something to hide, it's something you really should wear on your shirt. People can show that it's nothing to be ashamed of and that they're not going to immediately jump on the nearest heterosexual and try to convert them (I've heard this ignorant bullshit before) Asking people not to publicize that they happen to be gay is like asking a black guy to wear a white sheet over himself because being black offends people. If you're that ignorant that you're offended by black or gay people you belong in special ed, not with the rest of the student body.

Kevin -

Quite frankly, bull shit.

Here here! Your post is a shining beacon among some of these comments and I paid close attention to the entire thing. The idea that one idea should be freely expressed and an opposing idea be suppressed is just rather creepy and I fought against this sort of thing in my own school so I know where they're coming from.

[SimeSublime]

Sorry about that Jordan, I guess I wasn't clear. I was saying that I believe that schools should have a uniform. But as it stands they don't, and as such can't complain. I was implying that this should teach them a lesson so that they apply a uniform.

[Jen]

Kev, as usual, your post is well-reasoned and mentions Louis Althusser. Welcome to the debate!

[kdogg]

Jordan, do yourself a favor and watch the video of "The Wall" That's an English private school and that's what some of its alumnis thought of it. You can do whatever you want to crush individuality and free will. I think public schools try hard enough but every once in a while they spit out a failure. I'm damned bloody well proud to be a failure of the system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Skip to the part where the dude shaves his nipple off. It's the best part of the movie.

[Hannibal]

"if a christian wore a t-shirt nothing would happen"

Sure...here's another story which is the same, and you know what, I say the same thing: HUMAN BEINGS IN A PART OF THE WORLD NOBODY CARES ABOUT ARE BEING OPPRESSED AND TORTURED AND KILLED, THERE's NOT MUCH POINT IN WHINING ABOUT PIDDLY ASSED PROBLEMS OF KIDS GETTING KICKED OUT OF AMERICAN BRAINWASHING CENTERS FOR WEARING THE WRONG THING.




Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

By Patrick Cronin
pcronin@seacoastonlie.com


HAMPTON - A parent of a Hampton Academy Junior High School student says the principal of the school told his son to leave the school’s holiday dance on Friday night because the boy was dressed in a Santa Claus costume, which was politically incorrect.
Michael Lafond said his son, Bryan, went to the dance dressed as Santa because it was a holiday party.

"He asked if he could dress like Santa and we said yes," said Lafond. "We went to Brooks and purchased the outfit and everything."

Lafond said his wife dropped off Bryan at the school.

"I went to the dance with my friend," said Bryan Lafond, who is in seventh grade. "He had an elf hat on and we thought it was pretty cool. Everyone loved the suit, but when I went by the principal, he asked why I was dressed like that."

Principal Fred Muscara said he told the boy he couldn’t get into the dance because he was wearing the costume.

"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There is a separation of church and state. We have a lot of students that go to Hampton Academy Junior High that have different religions. We have to be sensitive to that."

Bryan said while Muscara didn’t say he had to leave, he told Bryan if he wanted to go the dance he would have to change out of the suit and put on proper attire for the dance.

Having nothing to change into, Bryan left the dance to try and find his mother.

"My wife was leaving the parking lot when she saw Bryan running out of the building," said Lafond. "He told her that the principal said it was politically incorrect to wear the Santa outfit."

"I saw him running out of the building crying," said Leslie Lafond, Bryan’s mother.

Lafond said while he disagrees with their reasoning he could almost understand it.

What he couldn’t understand was why his son was able to leave the dance.

"One of reasons why we are so angry is that the school has a policy that says once you go to the dance you can’t leave until it’s over," said Lafond. "You can’t leave school grounds unless they call a parent. If my wife wasn’t there, my son would have been out roaming the streets."

Bryan’s mother picked up her son and drove him home to change.

Lafond said his wife had to persuade Bryan to go back to the dance.

"He was so embarrassed," said Lafond. "It wasn’t like he was trying to pull a prank. He is just a good-natured kid getting into the holiday spirit who just happened to walk right by Scrooge."

Muscara said he was unaware that Bryan left the dance.

"I asked if he had something he could change into and he said he did," said Muscara.

Lafond said when his wife drove Bryan back to the dance, she complained to school officials.

She said she also complained to several School Board members and Muscara.

On Monday, Bryan’s parents went before the School Board to voice their concerns.

"I don’t want this to happen again," said Leslie. "It is unacceptable. When Bryan returned to the school, the principal said, ‘What are you doing, trying to get me fired.’ That is not a proper comment to make to a student."

Superintendent James Gaylord told the School Board it would discuss the matter in non-public session because it involved a student and personnel.

When contacted at her house Monday afternoon, Hampton School Board Chairman Nancy Serpis said she was concerned with what she heard.

"We need to look at the whole situation," said Serpis.

Lafond said political correctness is getting out of control.

"I don’t get it," said Lafond, citing a PTA breakfast with Santa at the school a couple of weeks ago.

"What’s next? Are they going to get rid of Halloween because of paganism?" he asked.

"The last time I checked, Christmas was the celebration of the birth of Christ and not Santa Claus," Leslie said. "I want them to make an apology to my son. My son was humiliated."

[kdogg]

Hannibal, why are you even thinking about Iraq? There is genocide occurring in parts of Africa, with death tolls far exceding the totals in Iraq. Therefore, the Iraq situaion is irrelevant. You should not even consider it a problem.

[Laura]

How about this as a nice compromise: "I'm gay, but I'm ashamed."

Right on, Chef-- the argument that "This isn't worth talking about because there is something else in the world that is more important" is bullshit. It's like when you get involved in some kind of cause (i.e. the environment, gay rights, animal rights, human rights) and you get flak for not being involved in a more important cause. If we all only had to care about the most globally important cause, we'd never get anything done. For one thing, determining the World's Most Worthy Cause would take up a lot of time.

ETA: As usual, I missed a whole page of posts, and kdogg just put this more succinctly.

This post has been edited by Laura: 23 December 2004 - 03:55 PM

[Chyld]

While I agree with the Hanniblarticle's point that the world has gone PC-mad (a view I'm not going to relinquish for a long time), its a bit much to sideline every other moral issue in the universe for the sake of George Bush's oil hunt...

[barend]

hannibal.

why are we reading this story when terrible things are happening else where? I'll tell you...

BECAUSE ONE MAJOR PROBLEM DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD TURN A BLIND EYE TO EVERYOTHER ATROCITY. I DON'T CARE HOW SMALL, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT PERSOCUTING SOME ONE FOR BEING ARABIC OR GAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER... IT'S ALL STILL THE SAME ETHNIC CLEANSING WHITE-OUT BULLSHIT ISN'T IT.

LIKE hmmm that dude over there is being mugged, i could northern-fist-kung-fu his muggers ass into the next century, but then again it's not as bad as the stuff going on iraq so, i'll just keep walking

seriously, that's great....

secondly... this is the CRAPPY NEWS FORUM!!! not fucking CNN...
don't be such a hypocrit... if you're so high and fucking mighty, go over there and liberate the hannibal way... and wheather you save Iraque or get your head cut off... you'll have the credability you always desired...

but don't drag shit in here man... i know what's going on, but i'm not going to bring it up here any more than i would during sex...

chill the fuck out...

and don't ever fucking talk down to us again... you don't have the clout!!!

PS merry chrismas dude

[J m HofMarN]

Hannibal: I made an argument similiar to this once but it was based on the fact that someone had posted something defending the US during a debate on the Iraq war and then later posted something claiming he was fed up with the US because Bush's education person had said something about bringing the bible into schools. Though it turned out to be a misconception that is certainly grounds for debate, whereas this isn't as I already explained.

And just why do you have any business commenting on this at all? There's a thread in the lobby forum where I encouraged people to send letters to our troops asking them to cease fighting or desert the army and offering a free way of doing so. I see no post there from you. There are protests and teach-ins occuring in most major cities and I have never seen you at one. If you're going to insult other people for not focusing on Iraq, even though as I stated before this news is quite important and pertinent, then maybe you should lead by example and do something. For starters you can check out www.internationalanswer.org to learn more about the groups resisting the war and what we're up to. My contingent is one of the groups that has joined the answer coalition and I've marched with them on two or three occasions with another hopefully coming up in January depending on our permit situation.

[Jordan]

I guess what I was trying to say was that if the school wants to enforce some small rules then I feel the kids should just follow them. I don't see it as an attack on his individuality. He can wear that shirt any time outside school hours. The school can't kick him out for his life style just ask him not to advertise it.

Religon and sexual lifestyles are heated subjects and you're bound to offend somebody somewhere.

I think kids should have more discipline . It will help them so much when they get older. It's not turning them into brainwashed robots like in the WALL video. There is no dark sarcasim or thought control going on. Just respecting the systems simple rule.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 25 December 2004 - 08:43 AM

[J m HofMarN]

Jordan- I think the guy in question was wearing the shirt in response to stickers that were against gay rights. That's one of the main arguments of the case and I'm sure you can understand why it's not cool.

And discipline is the job of the parents, not the schools. My school tried everything in the book to stop me from being a hooligan except for summarily executing me and I still grinned and asked for more. Turning the learning process into a power struggle is a bad idea.

[Slade]

I need not reply, as the points I would make have already been stated by others.