[Despondent]

I think the part about the Palpatine/Anikan scene that really chaps our bums is the FACT that LUCAS ADMITS (on the aotc dvd commentary which I may presume, no old-school, OT only, albeit justifiably closed-minded fan would ever suffer through) THAT THE SCENE WAS AN AFTERTHOUGHT, as it was completely forgotten about during the writing and filming phases.

If you care about art and can be honest with yourself, great. If you're doomed to prop up a figure to make him look better and so others will agree with you, choose a political party.

edit: cancel that double negative.

This post has been edited by Despondent: 14 December 2004 - 03:53 PM

[Garth Vader]

I think the part about the Palpatine/Anikan scene that really chaps our bums is the FACT that LUCAS ADMITS (on the aotc dvd commentary which I may presume, no old-school, OT only, albeit justifiably closed-minded fan would never suffer through) THAT THE SCENE WAS AN AFTERTHOUGHT, as it was completely forgotten about during the writing and filming phases.

If you care about art and can be honest with yourself, great. If you're doomed to prop up a figure to make him look better and so others will agree with you, choose a political party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess that's proof needed that lucas is completely inept at writing the screenplay for these films. that was one of the early scenes I was interested in especially sincre palpatine is such an interesting character and it turns out it might not have even been in the film had it not been for for lucas having second thoughts about the scripts during the re-shoots. Oh how I long for the prequels to have been handed over back to kurtz, kirshner, kasdan and a decent editior etc etc.

[barend]

The chancellor regularly consults with jedi during his reign to ask them for advice. What is so hard to believe that a Chancellor is trying to get close to a certain jedi because he know he is the "chosen one." Thats his whole plan, get close to him and then turn him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why would he ask advice of padwan... a trainee, an aprentice?

the jedi counsel were reluctant to train him. they think he may be this 'chosen one'
they sense fear in him. he is insubordinate. he is still in training.

why would the counsel allow him to consort unescorted with any political figure, trusted or not...?

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!

there is no argument to contend with my point. as the depth at which this scene and concept fails runs very deep ineed...

[Despondent]

No, he didn't have permission. It goes with his "wah wah- they're holding me back" rant. He can't rise within the system, so he's trying to go over their heads and impress the big boss. Happens all the time.

But he doesn't know about Palps being sith lord, or DOES HE?

-bum, bum, bummmm

(of course he doesn't. his suck-up midichlorians are acting on his behalf. and I use the term "acting" loosely)
----

Lucas, you got Nothin'.

[use the force]

I can believe that they have became friends over the years. "I've told you many times ANakin you are the most gifted jedi I have ever met." Thats like saying George Bush cannot be friends with anyone from the secret servicec or military.

You guys have trouble believing this but you can believe in lightsabers and 4 people running through a deathstar and escaping half the army. There are so many things to question in Star Wars. Im not gonna raise a fit becasue they didn't make Episode 1.5: How chancellor palpatine finds time to spend with jedi knight anakin.

[Sagacity]

There's a wall of protocol that determines who an official can get close to, and I don't think that Palpatine would spend the amount to time you think he has with a Jedi outside of official business, no matter how gifted he may be. And anyway, there is zero setup for that scene.

And the exact line is: "I have said it many times: you are the most gifted Jedi I have ever met." That could mean he may have said that to others, but not to Anakin. Anakin sounds like it's the first time he's heard Palpatine say that to him. If he's heard it before, "many times", he would have stopped saying "thank you, Your Excellency" a while ago.

This post has been edited by Sagacity: 14 December 2004 - 10:26 PM

[Helena]

The chancellor regularly consults with jedi during his reign to ask them for advice. What is so hard to believe that a Chancellor is trying to get close to a certain jedi because he know he is the "chosen one." Thats his whole plan, get close to him and then turn him.

In itself, the idea that Palpatine wanted to exploit Anakin for his own purposes is not that hard to believe (though the notion that he already had his whole scheme planned out when Anakin was still a ten-year-old is a little far-fetched, to say the least.) The problem is that the idea of Anakin having a relationship with Palpatine throws up a whole load of difficult questions, none of which Lucas even comes close to answering.

For a start, how did Palpatine even get close to Anakin in the first place? There would be absolutely no reason for the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic to have any contact whatsoever with a Padawan. If Anakin had been a member of the Council it would be understandable that Palpatine would consult with him, but he was just an apprentice - how would Palpatine justify holding private sessions with him? Did the Jedi even know about this? If not, there's the question of how it could have escaped their notice, given that the Anakin's training would surely have been pretty strictly controlled.

Secondly, there's the issue of exactly what kind of guidance Palpatine could have given Anakin, which is not even hinted at. Presumanly it can't be Force training, since Palpatine wasn't letting on about being a Force user at this point. So what was it - lectures in political theory? Anger-management therapy? Don't you think this is something that should be explained, given that it's supposedly a major plot point?

You yourself claim that Anakin's relationship with Palpatine is an important reason for his turning to the Dark Side. Yet we are given absolutely no idea of a) how this relationship came about and b) what it consisted of. No one is asking for an entire movie on the subject (who's 'putting words into our mouths' now?), but as I said before, just one scene of Anakin and Palpy together could have gone a long way towards resolving some - though by no means all - of these issues. Yet as littlejerryseinfield pointed out, Lucas prefers to waste his time explaining the history of Boba Fett - a character who must have had all of six lines in the entire OT. A rather strange idea of priorities there, don't you think?

[use the force]

Its all coming to me now. So your mad because they didn't explain why palpatine had contact with jedi knight Anakin Skywalker?
As for palpatines guiding of anakin, i would guess that he would comfort anakin after he would rant about not getting any assingments or getting held back in his training, given the context of how this line was said.

This post has been edited by use the force: 15 December 2004 - 11:18 PM

[Despondent]

As for palpatines guiding of anakin, i would guess that

Bingo. We have to guess.

the old star wars movies didn't require a lot of Thinking. You just followed along and enjoyed the ride. Even people who would never condider seriously the subject of "religion" fell for the force. Motti, Solo, the guy sitting next to me at the theatre.

Empire made it interesting. There were a few questions and plenty of time (three years) to consider every one. We got used to the downtime, and were rewarded with a movie that left us scratching our heads when the answers were exposed as really not worth waiting for.

So let's review: good movie with emotional connect, followed by just as good movie that made us think a little, but still had the emotional connection. And oh yeah, about twenty characters tops who meant anything to us.

Then a big letdown because Lucas' explanation for why what's what is a lame cop-out. Ok great. New generation, bring in the Prequel Trilogy.

Menace made us think! oooooh. what does this mean? what does that mean? Who's he? no wait, who's HE? Whoa. Hey, I liked him and now he's dead! He was the only one I liked. Wait, I still have to figure out what the phantom menace means.

Clones made it interesting alright. More questions to answer, and wait, more questions. The latest one is why are Palpatine and Anikan so chummy with the secret friendship. Yes secret friendship. If you've been paying attention you realize Lucas almost kept that secret from us as well. But wait there are more questions. I won't recite them because I HAVE NO EMOTIONAL CONNECTION and really couldn't care less. What are we up to now, thirty Additional characters in addition to the twenty (or less, fine,) that are being re-introduced to us?

I liked the old movies where I didn't have to think. Not that a question or two wasn't cool. The lame answers as cruel as touching a hot stove for the first time are what has set the standard for films the masses are willing to endure.

[Just your average movie goer]

That's so true. Did you know that Bail Organa, Leia's surrogate father, was supposed to be in Episode II? I never noticed... maybe because his name is not mentioned once. But also because there are thousands of other characters and CGI distractions (I guess Lucas calls these things characters as well, but they're not). And to tell the truth, I just can't bring myself to care about any of it.

[Helena]

Its all coming to me now. So your mad because they didn't explain why palpatine had contact with jedi knight Anakin Skywalker?
As for palpatines guiding of anakin, i would guess that he would comfort anakin after he would rant about not getting any assingments or getting held back in his training, given the context of how this line was said.

So you're saying Anakin occasionally went whining to Palpatine, of all people (why?), about the Jedi 'holding him back' - and on this basis he decides to betray the Order and help Palpatine take over the galaxy? Not only is this a complete guess on your part (see what we mean about having to make stuff up?) but it hardly seems sufficient to forge such a close relationship between the two of them. I mean, how often can this have happened without the Jedi getting suspicious?

As for why we're 'mad', the point is that this is just one example of many, many supposedly important plot elements which are never explained properly or even at all - Anakin's transformation from a nice little kid into an arrogant, whinging brat, the reasons behind the 'Seperatist' crisis, Dooku's motives for leaving the Jedi and becoming a Sith... The result is a badly-thought-out, incoherent story that makes little sense and makes it impossible either to suspend disbelief or to care about anyone involved. A good filmmaker would find a simple, involving way to explain these things, rather than leaving the viewers to fill in the gaps.

[use the force]

I never said he had a uber friendship with palpatine. He doesnt really start to become uber friends with him until ROTS where he is assigned as his bodyguard. And who else would Anakin go to? The jedi? He can't go there of course. And they are the only people he has practically ever known. And why would the jedi get really suspicious of this. They have no idea who he really is. From their point of view its just the chancellor befriending a young jedi who he has known since the age of 10.

[barend]

it's like the president being friends with a private who's a chef in the navy...

annies no knight, he's a padwan...
a NOBODY...

and more improtantly... i don't beleive in any of it...

why argue about it the i hear you ask?

because i'm a prick!!!

[use the force]

He is the chosen one.

[barend]

says who?!?