[barend]

well, he's not going to watch his friends die...

but the important thing is that he only shuned the NAzgukl away and didn't launch a firestorm on them... or something...

secondly... i was the first to be pissed off by gimlies comic releif in the two towers... but the stuff in ROTK was gold... the aim thing was pretty funny... the blowing thing was kind of cool... very jacksonesque humour... but then i've been a fan of his forever... and you guys don't like hhorror so... whatever..

but, the skull crushing thing was a bit needless... why would a dwark have a problem with all those skulls when he didn't in moria...

and he didn't need to fart.

it's like i could hear george lucas laughing at that...

the burp in edoras was cool... (in TTT) because Theoden says ' when last i looked Theoden was king of Rohan not Aragorn'

and gimly was almost showing a sign of indifference at the remark...
as the three who travelled there were all pretty much royalty...

but farts, no thanks...

[Lord Aquaman]

Miranda Otto, the actress who played Eowyn, turned 37 today. Happy birthday, Miranda!

[Just your average movie goer]

Happy Birthday, Mirinda! Yes, we're all fans of you here.


And cool... new points to discuss...

14. Women and children. They roam freely the streets of Gondor, and we can see, that they are even present in the FIRST CIRCLE of Gondorian walls. Even if the Civilian’s argument from the TTT thread is valid that women and children are safest in keeps, surely they are not safest in the first circle? How come they didn’t evacuate their people? Did those idiots didn’t know? Of course they knew, but the director thought it would be more “dramatic” if we see women ravaged by orcs

YES! YES! YES!!! OH, THANK YOU, MADAM CORVAX!!!

This is one of the things that irks me the most... why were all the women, children, infants and the elderly down in the lower levels. They should have all been up in the highest tier of the city.

I mean, what good is having seven tiers if you don't use them? The whole point of all these walls is to provide extra levels of protection... protection that nobody takes advantage of.

That was very silly indeed. And I wondered, wasn't it dramatic enough showing young men being killed? We don't need all the innocent bystanders being killed too... otherwise it's like one of those action movie car chases.


And

After Aragorn charge Merry and Pippin, and they get TRAMPLED by the attacking people who run AFTER them.

Yeah, I saw that the very first time I watched the theatrical cut and you didn't need to concentrate hard to see it either. It was rather comical, wasn't it?



I was wondering, have you watched the From Book to Script feature yet? I always find this section interesting as it explains a lot of their decisions. I don't agree with all of them but when I watch this, I can respect that they thought about these things carefully.

I also imagine that the deadlines of one film a year affected the deterioration in quality after the first movie... resulting in the rushed editing of Return of the King.


It's sad that the Extended Edition still feels rushed. I would have thought with 50 more minutes of footage in there, this movie would finally have its much needed room to breathe. But it didn't.


Here's a quick suggestion... as the Gandalf/Witch King confrontation was a complete let down and utterly pathetic scene, axe it ... and axe the earlier references to it ->

1. Gandalf talking to Pippin about the Witch King, while the Witch King dresses up as Batman and prepares to go battle the Joker... er... I mean, lead his armies against Gondor.

2. Gothmog talking to the Witch King and he asks him about Gandalf... and the Witch King says "I will break him."


It's just a few minutes... but this could be used for more Faramir/Eowyn scenes.



Where else can we get time? The Gollum prologue is a prime scene for cutting. It adds nothing to the story. It's interesting and all but seeing as all the major cuts to the theatrical edition were about keeping the running time down, it seems awfully hypocritical that this scene didn't get the chop. And I HATE seeing the close up of Gollum eating the catfish. I mean, WHY would we want to see THAT?


The drinking game should have gone as well. Pointless. Aragorn and Legolas talking about the stars availing and the sleepless malice in the east....

"Sleepless malice? Geez, I didn't realise this. Could this perhaps be Sauron???"

The extended walk into the Paths of the Dead was useless as well. I really wish I had been in on this project.

All these mistakes wouldn't have happened if I had been calling the shots. Rest assured, you would have an infinitely superior film.

[Madam Corvax]

I particularly disliked the crunching skulls, and later on the flow of skulls that our heroes are almost drowned in in the Path of Dead. I felt like I was watching a B-grade horror film with a blown-up budget for CGI.

I mean, what is it? A fnatasy or Night of the Walking dead? and the concept of skulls is such a cliche!

As JYAMG, I would gladly trade all this gratuitous stuff for more romance between Eowyn and Faramir.

They speak to each other THREE SENTENCES. I mean, three!
Would it have killed the film or what to add some more flesh to the scene, some more interaction? After so much anticipation, I still find it hugely diappointing. If I hadn't known the book, I would still ask, wait a minute, she was sooo much in love with Aragorn, and now just falls for the first guy that crosses her path.

But at least she isn't cooking him any food...

[Lord Aquaman]

I particularly disliked the crunching skulls, and later on the flow of skulls that our heroes are almost drowned in  in the Path of Dead. I felt like  I was watching a B-grade horror film with a blown-up budget for CGI.

I mean, what is it? A fnatasy or Night of the Walking dead? and the concept of skulls is such a cliche!

As JYAMG, I would gladly trade all this gratuitous stuff for more romance between Eowyn and Faramir.

They speak to each other THREE SENTENCES. I mean, three!
Would it have killed the film or what to add some more flesh to the scene, some more interaction? After so much anticipation, I still find it hugely diappointing. If I hadn't known the book, I would still ask, wait a minute, she was sooo much in love with Aragorn, and now just falls for the first guy that crosses her path.

But at least she isn't cooking him any food...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, the cooking scene seen in the extended TTT bugged me. It kind of made Eowyn out to be a bit of a fool/bimbo.

Faramir got screwed.

Eomer also got screwed. The trailers showed him mourning what he thinks is the loss of his sister, the only family he has left after the death of his parents, cousin and uncle, but he's left with no real character development in the film (we never see much of his relationship with Theoden, even though it's established in TTT that he's fiercely loyal to the old man).

[Madam Corvax]

Ok., back to my rants:

16. I cherished a slight hope that they will improve the scene where Faramir charges trying to re-capture Osgiliath for the n-th time and Denethor requires that Pippin should sing for him and he at the same time is eating like a pig. No such thing. Gone is the noble, if haughty steward from the book, welcome Denethor the Despicable Pig. This scene had as much subtlety as a butcher’s cleaver, which apparetly was used to edit it. The bravery, the sad sacrifice the soldiers made was punctuated with Pippin singing, which was perhaps bearable, and Denethor eating. PJ is fast learning the subtleties of filmmaking from GL

17. Singing. One of the happiest moments in my life that restored my faith in good art was the day that I saw FOTR- TV and discovered that there is no singing in it. Somebody – his guardian daemon perhaps – persuaded PJ not to include any singing of horrendously poor verse (ok., Gandalf mumbles several limes in the opening, but that’s it) He decided to leave the singing to professional (Enya, Elisabeth Frazer).

And then in FOTR:EE everyone suddenly was singing – Merry and Pippin, Aragorn, and from now on everyone seemed to make a point of singing, too. What for, I ask you! Pippin, Aragorn, Eowyn – everyone insists on singing. I hate it.

18. I am not sure, correct me if I am wrong, but the acting range of Viggo Mortensen in ROTK seem to consist only of one facial exp​ression – guilty and concerned, as if the taste of stew from TTT:EE was premanently stuck in his mounth. I mean, seriously – he doesn’t smile once, not much even when he sees Arwen in Minas Tirith. I suspect the poor guy was so tired and bored with all that Tolkien-talk and sword-whacking that e forgot to move his facial muscles.

[Lord Aquaman]

Speaking of singing, I couldn't stand "Gollum's Song" from "Two Towers". That woman doing the song COULD NOT SING PERIOD. It was like listening to nails being scratched against steal.

[barend]

This is one of the things that irks me the most... why were all the women, children, infants and the elderly down in the lower levels.  They should have all been up in the highest tier of the city. 

I mean, what good is having seven tiers if you don't use them?  The whole point of all these walls is to provide extra levels of protection... protection that nobody takes advantage of.

That was very silly indeed.  And I wondered, wasn't it dramatic enough showing young men being killed?  We don't need all the innocent bystanders being killed too... otherwise it's like one of those action movie car chases.
And

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

here is an exerpt from the script to refresh your memory...

Gandalf: "War is coming."
[Denethor remains silent, his face lowered.]
"The enemy is on your doorstep! As steward you're charged with the defence of the city! Where are Gondor's armies?!"
[Denethor stares at Gandalf.]

it was Denethor's job to take care of such arangements...
and he had dropped the ball on that one...

This post has been edited by barend: 16 December 2004 - 08:46 PM

[Despondent]

Take it from the Man who took on Denathor.

[Just your average movie goer]

Okay...

here is an exerpt from the script to refresh your memory...

Gandalf: "War is coming."
[Denethor remains silent, his face lowered.]
"The enemy is on your doorstep! As steward you're charged with the defence of the city! Where are Gondor's armies?!"
[Denethor stares at Gandalf.]

it was Denethor's job to take care of such arangements...
and he had dropped the ball on that one...

I know that, you cheeky bugger. But are you trying to tell me that while the orcs were marching across the plains, the civilians couldn't have evacuated to the higher levels? And if nobody gave them the command, surely they could have figured out for themselves that with a big battle coming, it might be a good idea to get out of the way of the fighting.

Don't be a smart ass, Barend. That's my job.

16. I cherished a slight hope that they will improve the scene where Faramir charges trying to re-capture Osgiliath for the n-th time and Denethor requires that Pippin should sing for him and he at the same time is eating like a pig. No such thing. Gone is the noble, if haughty steward from the book, welcome Denethor the Despicable Pig. This scene had as much subtlety as a butcher’s cleaver, which apparetly was used to edit it. The bravery, the sad sacrifice the soldiers made was punctuated with Pippin singing, which was perhaps bearable, and Denethor eating. PJ is fast learning the subtleties of filmmaking from GL

You know, everybody hates this scene but me. I think it's brilliant. It's a good point that the people who send people to their deaths never experience the horrors of war. They sit in comfort, while others suffer. Also I don't think Denethor was out of character by eating in the scene. I think the compulsion to eat is a common reaction to grief after a big loss. If you don't know what else to do, you can always eat something. I also think the Extended Edition really helps justify more of Denethor's behaviour. We find out WHY he was angry with Faramir for instance. I cannot believe they cut out that scene. That defies all logic and also makes the ending of The Two Towers when Faramir releases the hobbits with all this drama seem a bit pointless. I'm glad it's finally in the movie.

17. Singing.

Oh, God yes. Now, I liked Pippin's song. But Aragorn's was awful... and it ruined the ending sequence for me. Now I have to fight to stop myself from fast forwarding that bit. It kind of looks like he's drunk when he closes his eyes and starts singing and everyone there looks as thought they're wondering what the hell is going on.

But Eowyn's song in The Two Towers was goddamn unbearable.

18. I am not sure, correct me if I am wrong, but the acting range of Viggo Mortensen in ROTK seem to consist only of one facial exp​ression – guilty and concerned, as if the taste of stew from TTT:EE was premanently stuck in his mounth. I mean, seriously – he doesn’t smile once, not much even when he sees Arwen in Minas Tirith. I suspect the poor guy was so tired and bored with all that Tolkien-talk and sword-whacking that e forgot to move his facial muscles.

Yeah, Aragorn just became completely uninteresting in the third movie. But then again, remember that Tolkien threw him, Legolas and Gimli aside in the books too. Maybe, this was a trickle down effect of that. I know the Oliphant scene was - the screenwriters had to make up lots of stuff to keep the trio of heroes in the movie.

Speaking of singing, I couldn't stand "Gollum's Song" from "Two Towers". That woman doing the song COULD NOT SING PERIOD. It was like listening to nails being scratched against steal.

Lord Aquaman, you are insane. No offence but you are completely insane. Gollum's Song was a hauntingly beautiful song and the best ending music of any film I've seen for a long time.

[Lord Aquaman]

Did anyone like the Annie Lennox song from ROTK - "Into the West"? I kind of liked that one.

Did anyone hear feel that they used Liv Tyler's name and face as a battering ram in the publicity campaign for the Lord of the Rings trilogy? I mean look at the posters - she's in the corner of the FOTR poster, appears with up at the top of the TTT poster with Elijah, Viggo and Ian while poor Miranda Otto is relegated to the lower half of the poster, and then Liv takes up another corner alongside Frodo on the poster of ROTK (and poor Miranda is nowhere to be seen on that one, even though she does appear in the film and actually does something other than lying around in a castle having dream sequences and showing up at the end to be with the King!).

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 17 December 2004 - 09:32 AM

[Just your average movie goer]

That's a good point though. Although, I must say Liv and Arwen are growing on me a lot more these days. Maybe it's because I'm going all soft. Maybe it's because I was using her image A LOT in Starry Nights. I don't know. But the other day, I watched The Two Towers and I really, really fell for the Aragorn/Arwen scenes that time. I've never fallen for them before but I started thinking about them more and just the sheer magnitude of what happens here. An immortal elf maiden gives up her mortality for the love of a man. This is powerful stuff - and I've been thinking about how I will rip it off for my own work ever since.

[Lord Aquaman]

That's a good point though.  Although, I must say Liv and Arwen are growing on me a lot more these days.  Maybe it's because I'm going all soft.  Maybe it's because I was using her image A LOT in Starry Nights.  I don't know.  But the other day, I watched The Two Towers and I really, really fell for the Aragorn/Arwen scenes that time.  I've never fallen for them before but I started thinking about them more and just the sheer magnitude of what happens here.  An immortal elf maiden gives up her mortality for the love of a man.  This is powerful stuff - and I've been thinking about how I will rip it off for my own work ever since. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you're reacting to the news that Liv just gave birth to her son Milo.

What would you say to someone if they told you they were going to rip off the quote unquote "father/son" conflict from the original Star Wars trilogy?

And how can I be insane when Viewing says 'Return of the Jedi' had the best music of the old trilogy?

[Just your average movie goer]

Oh, Vwing's insanity is at a whole other level.

As for Liv and her son, I didn't even know about. I just appreciated the scenes fully on my last viewing.

And if someone were going to rip off the father/son thing from the original Star Wars trilogy, I would just say to them "Can you make sure it doesn't end with the son seeing his father as a happy ghost?"

You're American, aren't you, Lord Aquaman?

[Lord Aquaman]

Oh, Vwing's insanity is at a whole other level. 

As for Liv and her son, I didn't even know about.  I just appreciated the scenes fully on my last viewing.

And if someone were going to rip off the father/son thing from the original Star Wars trilogy, I would just say to them "Can you make sure it doesn't end with the son seeing his father as a happy ghost?"

You're American, aren't you, Lord Aquaman?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. I was born, raised, and still living in Baltimore, Maryland. How about you?

What if say, it was reversed to be a mother/daughter thing with a sorceress going to look for her [allegedly] evil mother?

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 17 December 2004 - 12:37 PM