[J m HofMarN]

Another question. Why are there no power couplings in the OT?

[jariten]

1)If the droid could be programmed to cut through a window, it can be programmed to stick to that same window loaded with explosives and blown the hell out of that room

yes, this is a good and perfectly valid point. at first my own personal theory though is that they wanted to be sneaky and quiet about the whole affair and not raise too much attention. then about 2 seconds later i remembered that they used a bomb to blow up Padmes ship, so that didnt work. its just one of those 'why does the death star pull out of light speed on the wrong side of Yavin' star wars hooks thats used for dramatic purposes/plot advancement etc. sometimes i feel that critics let some things go in the OT but then relish ripping apart in the PT. alas.

If the Naboo are clever enough to put a decoy on the transport, then there's a decoy in that room. If Obi-Wan wants clues to lead him to Jango and/or Zam, there's evidence all over that room

sorry, youve lost me here a bit.

2)It would have been really funny if that droid had a self-destruct if it were captured or tampered with.

but it didnt. again, it was a split second, heroic, self sacrificing descision on Obi Wans part. he had about 3 seconds to decide what to do.

)Being all those miles in the air with all those nasty hard surfaces, the droid could have just flown Obi-Wan into a building, cleaned him off on a wall, or flown headlong into traffic and not miss.

i dont see any evidence that the droid has A.I or anything. just a simple, go there do that come back programme.

4)Something that small probably has only enough lift capability to keep itself in the air. Add 200lb, and somebody becomes part of the street.

again, its things like this that youve gotta deal with in Star Wars. In every SW film I mean.

5)The droid would not have returned to its master like puppy dog. It would have fled or blown itself up, but not made a beeline back to Zam.

and how do you know this? the reason i think it would go back to Zam is that in the film, it goes back to Zam.

6)If the droid was packing poisoned worms, it probably carried countermeasures to protect itself. How long would Obi-Wan have held on if that thing was packing vibroblades (EU, sorry)? We know it had a something for cutting glass.

like your last couple of points, youre making things up to justify the criticism.

Ok. They thought a droid, which is a thing that is produced anywhere, would be a better lead than a poisonous worm, which would be unique to a single planet

the same thing is happening here. theres nothing in the film to suggest that what you are saying is true. all im basing my anaysis of the film on is exactly whats there on screen. the only real problem i can see with this scene is the point Sagacity raised about the why didnt the droid just blow up the room. but if you cant take that as as dramatic device, i dont see how you can enjoy the others too.

[jariten]

So is Duku a sith? Who is Palpatine's apprentice? Where was Duku during episode 1? What are the clones supposed to be for? Are Duku and Palpatine buddies? I forgot the seperatists in my synopsis, but who are they? And why is it Ok for Anikin to shag Amidala all of a sudden?. Why is the biggest expert on darts working as a short order chef in some shitty diner? Why is Amidala supposed to be dead, anyway?

its pretty simple once you realise that Dooku is Tyrannous and that hes working for Palpatine (who is also Darth Sidious).

1. yes, Dooku is a sith.

2. Dooku is Palpatines apprentice

3. He left the order just after TPM (which was 10 years before). he wasnt important to TPM.

4. The clones are apparantly for the Republic, issued by a now dead Jedi called Sifo Dias. Thats still a mystery to be resolved in 3, but it looks like Palpatine got Dooku to engineer this seperatist movement in order to give Palpatine the powers to get his army. which he'll use to form the Empire etc.

5. dont know if theyre friends or not, but one is master and one is apprentice.

6. the seperatists sre a bunch of systems disgruntled with the inefficiency of the Republic. led by Dooku, it eventually turns out that theyre going to start a civil war. in reality, its all a big ploy by Palps to get his yummy army together.

7. its not ok, but the little scamp does it anyway! bless 'im

8. Dex is like one of those old guys from a 50's noir that lives down and dirty on the street and gets privy to all kinds of juicy info that the cop needs to shake out of him. expect that obi and dex are friends. love that guy btw.

9. dont know what you mean by this, sorry.

if youve got any more questions, i'll be happy to help you out.

[Despondent]

Jariten,

why does Obi-Wan's ship in Clones separate in orbit? Doesn't it seem stupid that if you need, or want to make a quick getaway (for instance to act in a responsive manner that Jedi's are depended upon to do) from a planet that FIRST you have to rendezvous with your personal orbiter, parked somewhere in space. I guess the lander has the same "bounce-back" feature as the assassin's assassin's assassin droid?

Stupid question I know. Not important to the (action) story. But you're so GOOD at defending this rubbish.

____

Azerty,

love your chart of character development. bug people Did you intentionally leave out the super mario brothers in the robot factory? (bugs making robots make robots) That was a pivotal scene where the droids exposed their hidden talents.

[Sagacity]

Oy.

Yes, I made those things up to prove a point: the whole sequence makes no logical sense as it is. Any of those changes or any combination would have made it slightly more believable and would have stopped me from saying "oh, come on!"

I was hoping somebody at LFL had given these things at least this amount of thought before going ahead with the whole sequence. When did they fire that guy?

[Mike Mac from NYU]

its just one of those 'why does the death star pull out of light speed on the wrong side of Yavin' star wars hooks thats used for dramatic purposes/plot advancement etc. sometimes i feel that critics let some things go in the OT but then relish ripping apart in the PT. alas.

I could be wrong but I think that like any other heavenly body, the Death Star still has to actually get into orbit and be facing the planet first.

But point is taken, sometimes things do happen for ther purpose of plot.

Score one for you, jariten.

Jariten 1
PT Haters 244



All in good fun

[azerty]

I am almost beginning to understand...

So after Mr. Maul gets whacked, Palpatine gets Duku to be his apprentice. They sit tight for ten years. Who ordered the clone army? And why is Amidala supposed to be killed? I don't get that part. Alive or dead she is irrelevant. As for Dex the Cook, OK in a film noir there can be an ex gangster who knows the street in his home neighborhood, but how could that Dex guy possibly look at a dart and know instantly which of a billion planets it's from, and what they do there for a living? Does he have a billion other obscure facts in his head? Like would he know a South americam Curari dart, or a FN FAL bullet casing if you showed him one? It's bollocks mate! If he's that good he should be in another line of work.

And I forgot about the robot factory, and do the Bug people have a name? Stupid question... they probably all have INDIVIDUAL names.

As for Hayden finally getting on the job, they don't even do it secretly!!! The seem to get married right out in the open. Is that right?

Anyway what's the bottom line? Palpatine wants to be emperor, but to do so he needs seperatists, a dead Amidala, clones, robots, and Obi wan Kenobi.. it don't make no sense!

Does it?

[Michel Orla]

It does to the one person gusher tell you matters: G.L. I have a feeling if Yoda did a "force fart" in Episode 3 and it knocked out an entire droid army the gushers would try to find a way to make it make sense

[jariten]

theres nothing difficult about it. watch it again, bearing in mind that everything revolves around Palpatine/Sidious and his attempt to get into power.

Who ordered the clone army?

apparantly a jedi named Sifo Dias, although thats all left to be cleared up next May.

And why is Amidala supposed to be killed?

Nute Gunray wanted her dead as part of the Federations deal to join the seperatists. Palpatine used the attacks to bring the jedi into it, knowing it would lead them to Kamino and the 'activation' (for want of a better word) of the clone army.

Alive or dead she is irrelevant

well shes not irrelevant. shes a strong, vocal opponent of the military creation act (because she beleives it'll push the Republic into a civil war- which of course it eventually does)

As for Dex the Cook, OK in a film noir there can be an ex gangster who knows the street in his home neighborhood, but how could that Dex guy possibly look at a dart and know instantly which of a billion planets it's from, and what they do there for a living? Does he have a billion other obscure facts in his head? Like would he know a South americam Curari dart, or a FN FAL bullet casing if you showed him one? It's bollocks mate! If he's that good he should be in another line of work.

Dex is modelled in the 50's noir mode (as is that whole section of film). There were plently of murky know it alls there who knew the lay of the land and the word on the street. Lucas needed a way to get from point A to point B quickly. its perfectly believable if you allow Lucas the same leeway with the prequels as you did with the originals (as i keep saying)

and do the Bug people have a name?

Geonosions. the boss is called Poggle the Lesser. pretty stupid name but there you go.

As for Hayden finally getting on the job, they don't even do it secretly!!! The seem to get married right out in the open. Is that right?

they were on Naboo. so yes, it was in secret.

Anyway what's the bottom line? Palpatine wants to be emperor, but to do so he needs seperatists, a dead Amidala, clones, robots, and Obi wan Kenobi.. it don't make no sense!

Does it?

yes of course. he needs an army, so he creates a war so he'll be awarded the powers to create one. as were seeing right now in America, when people are scared they'll do anything including surrendering their liberties. he needed a jedi to discover the clones and bring them into action. etc. etc.

[J m HofMarN]

"apparantly a jedi named Sifo Dias, although thats all left to be cleared up next May."

So some random Jedi forked out billions of credits to create an invincible clone army ten years ago then deleted the file about it from the archives and acted like it never happened. How did he get funding for this? Did noone notice a guy in brown robes using the force to drag thirty seven suitcases full of cash to a planet that supposedly didn't exist? Somehow I get the impression that the prequels need prequels.

"

Palpatine used the attacks to bring the jedi into it, knowing it would lead them to Kamino and the 'activation' (for want of a better word) of the clone army."

So after making insane efforts to keep the Jedi from finding out about Kamino now he's somehow trying to lead them there? Is the light side clouding his vision or something? First he makes a completely non-sensical chain of assassins and apprentices and sub-assassins and droids and darts and worms to throw the Jedi off the trail. But at the same time he wants them to find the clone army. Why didn't he

A make it easier (IE not statistically impossible) for the Jedi to find out about Kamino or

B just send some random lackie to activate the clone army and not even bother with the Jedi. Basing a plan on the most absurd possibility is not a good idea. For instance, were I Palpatine I would logically say "Hmmm I'll send an assassin who lives on Camino to kill some random person in the republic. When this assassin is stopped it will be traced to Camino."

Instead Palpatine chooses an infinitely more convoluted plan involving droids and shapeshifters and Jango Fett and worms. The success of this plan hinges on someone leaping out a window, following the droid, and then having the shapeshifter get shot. So, if Obi Wan had done the sane thing and obeyed the laws of gravity all of Palpatine's plans would have come to jack shit.

they were on Naboo. so yes, it was in secret.

Psst hey, let's go get married on your home planet where you're regarded as royalty. It's not as though anyone happens to follow royalty around and observe them and take pictures, especially not on their home turf. Royalty can always do whatever they want in complete secret.

[barend]

yes, this is a good and perfectly valid point. at first my own personal theory though is that they wanted to be sneaky and quiet about the whole affair and not raise too much attention. then about 2 seconds later i remembered that they used a bomb to blow up Padmes ship, so that didnt work.

you're right... but the only reason it didn't work is cause the bitch were'nt there!!!

when she was a asleep the droid should have shot her repeadedly in the face as she slept then blown up when obi wan jumped at it...

now that would have been climactic!!!

so they just gave up...

hmmm.... well she was in new york when the bomb went off in seatle... so i guess she can't be killed by bombs...

that's awsomly useless...

do you know jarriten, i have very little training in espionage, and even less in bounty hunting... and somewhere along the line, this average joe... (me) could have killed her on the first attempt...

and i would have done it for half the price... just to let everyone know...

THAT I AM MORE COMPITENT THEN BOBBA FETTS FATHER!!!!
and therefore the the best one in that galaxy...

then everyone would hire me...

some window cleaners:...
BOBBA FETT: hey look! there goes Barend the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy...
DENGAR WHATSHISNAME: ooooh, why is he so feared?
IG88: cause when he's paid to ice some muthafucker, some muthafucker gets iced!!!

[Despondent]

and do the Bug people have a name?

Geonosions. the boss is called Poggle the Lesser. pretty stupid name but there you go.

Exactly.

[J m HofMarN]

This brings up an interesting question. What if other movies picked up on teh Starwars kind of assassin?

Marseilles Wallace: Hey, girlfriend type chick, go hire me some bounty hunters.

Girlfriend: Yes, my lord.

-later that day-

Girlfriend: Hey, Jewels, I need you to kill someone.

Jewels: I'll hire someone right now.

-later that day-

Jewels: Hey, Zed, I want you to go kill this boxer guy.

Zed: Done and done!

-even later that day in a diner as he sips some coffee-

Jewels: I wonder how the whole killing the boxer guy thing is going...

-Meanwhile-

Zed: Gimp, I'm going to throw you through this window and I want you to kick the crap out of Bruce Willis.

Gimp: Murf!

[Jordan]

In retrospective, SW is not that great. The first two movies were good. ROTJ was so-so.

I bet if it were not for all those f'in toys and other products that carry the name, then we would not care so much. We've all been slowly engineered to think SW is greater than it ever was.

Or maybe it was really good. I forgot.

[jariten]

let me say again, that if we wanted to (and you all do) we could spend long enough with Clones to totally rip iy to pieces. i mean ok, but as long as we remember that the OT does not hold up to such intense anaysis either. having said that, the plot of Clones works perfectly well if you give the film a couple of breaks (the why didnt the droid just shoot Amidala bit being one of them).

So some random Jedi forked out billions of credits to create an invincible clone army ten years ago then deleted the file about it from the archives and acted like it never happened. How did he get funding for this? Did noone notice a guy in brown robes using the force to drag thirty seven suitcases full of cash to a planet that supposedly didn't exist? Somehow I get the impression that the prequels need prequels.

no they dont, all episode 2 needs is, oddly enough, an episode 3 to finish the story. if all this stuff is still unresolved by then, then i'll be right here with you wondering what happened to SW.

So after making insane efforts to keep the Jedi from finding out about Kamino now he's somehow trying to lead them there?

i understand how much you hate clones but the plot is honeslty not that complex (although it probably requires a couple of viewings). soon after TPM Palpatine somehow (again, episode 3) placed an order with the Kamionans for a clone army "for the Republic". they take 10 years to 'speed grow' into fighting shape. so after the 10 years had elapsed, he needed some way to 'activate' them. he obviosuly needed a Jedi, since it was a Jedi who placed the order in the first place (this mysterious Sifo Dias) so one would need to come back and collect them. in the meantime someone deleted the file so no one would know what was happening.

A make it easier (IE not statistically impossible) for the Jedi to find out about Kamino or

how? he gave obi wan a clue right in his lap with the dart thing. these must be moderatly recognisable since Dex knew it straight away.

The success of this plan hinges on someone leaping out a window, following the droid, and then having the shapeshifter get shot. So, if Obi Wan had done the sane thing and obeyed the laws of gravity all of Palpatine's plans would have come to jack shit.

well no obviosly all that wasnt part of the plan, but Jango leading Obi Wan to Kamino was. that couldve been achieved in any number of ways. the jumping through the window bit is just how it turned out. the important bit was Palpatine getting Obi and Anakin with Padme. the rest would take care of itself.

again, no it doesnt survive 100% if you want to tear it to pieces. but as a piece of kids space fantasy, it works perfectly well.

Psst hey, let's go get married on your home planet where you're regarded as royalty. It's not as though anyone happens to follow royalty around and observe them and take pictures, especially not on their home turf. Royalty can always do whatever they want in complete secret.

she made it back with Anakin the first time in total secrecy, so why not the second? they both knew it was wrong, so i imagine theyd take steps (i also think thats were the droids memory will be erased, to keep them from telling what they saw. just a guess)