[Vwing]

8) Movies made from Urban Legends (NATIONAL TREASURE, SAW) or philosophy questions we talked about at sophomore parties (BIRTH, THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT, DARK CITY, THE MATRIX).

I'll have to say I don't mind this. I love these kinds of movies, hope they don't go away for a while. Haven't seen Saw, though I didn't realize that was based on a urban legend, and National Treasure looks decent, but I think the second category of "philosophy" movies is here to say, and with good reason. Two movies on that list (Dark City, Matrix) are extremely well-done and entertaining, while I haven't seen the other two. Also, I never really talked to anyone about my mind being hooked up to a computer. Alien abductions and how much our memory makes us who we are yeah, but never really thought about being hooked up to a computer mainframe. What's funny is the Matrix is on TBS right now, I'm actually listening to it in the background. Talk about a coincidence. But I like those movies. Even if they proport to be more than they really are, they do pose interesting answers to those old discussion questions, and they make you think about them afterwards, which I say is a virtue. I don't think that's a cliche at all.

Ok let me try to add to this.

11) The weird Frenchman - In any movie that in any way involves France, there is a very strange, funny, or in some way quirky Frenchman (The Patriot). I'm going to use a line by comedian Eddie Izzard about this. He says "There's always this French character saying 'Hello. My name is Pierre. I have come from France, I have come to have sex with your family.'" Now there is a new asshole Frenchman because, you know, we have the French, but those quirky Frenchman just lurk in the cinema, and get really annoying.

12) Parodies that use the Jaws Theme - SOO many parodies, when there is supposed to be a parody of a suspenseful moment, will just use that goddamn Jaws theme. Doesn't even have to involve a shark, they use it, they think it's funny. Maybe 10, 15, even 20 years after Jaws came out, it was funny, then amusing, then tolerable. Now it's just infuriating. Instead of using that, how bout actually thinking of a clever, funny parody scene?

[Vwing]

One thing I forgot to say, though. I'm actually writing my first script now (mostly for fun, because it's based on a short novel by Robert Heinlein and I probably won't be able to get the rights, but like I said, I'm having fun writing it) and it is pretty hard to avoid these cliches. So far I'm 10 pages in, and I think my dialogue is good though of course it's tough to know, but fairly often there will come a time when I'll want to write something that really is cliche and have to really force myself not to. I mean I'm not a professional, but it definitely is much harder than it sounds to avoid a lot of these cliches and make a good, original movie.

[barend]

1. Prophecy: out side of some sort of religeous film this is a total NO GO!!!

2. unsuperficial love: usually in films envlolving wynona Ryder...
girl meets boring guy/superficial jerk, girl meets interesting guy/ lovestruck niceguy, girl chooses the later... now this never happens, I'm sorry... don't get me wrong there's alot of cool girls out there who are going out with cool guys... and when ever i see it, i always tell those people how cool it is theat they are together... but the scenarios i see in so many films are usually things i have seen happen in real life and here they turned out very different... and i find it offensive...
i saw some 80s pisstake film recently found it really cool when the female character said to the sensative guy, something like : "you're everything i need and i do have strong feelings for you, but jason is really cut, he has amazing abs..."

3. contact: when a girl says call me in a film but doesn't give the dude her number... i know it's just one of those things that should be ignored but... it kills the realism as much as musical number does...

4. sex: now if a girl doesn't want to expose herself on film even though she's in a sex scene... there are many clever ways to make that work... What in hate is when they try to film it as if nothing wa wrong...
like sex scenes where you can still see the persons underware... it looks goofy. and even better is the girl uses the sheets to cover her breats at all costs, as if she was walking through a shopping mall, not like she is talking to the guy she just had sex with (often her husband or whatever)... it's like "i've had sex with this guy, i love this guy, but whatever happens, he musn't see my boobs from this point tonight"
i mean if she were sitting there in a t-shirt or just decided not to get up neccesistating her need to keep the sheet pinned to her body... it would look halfway descent...

[Just your average movie goer]

Your point on sex in the movies is well made, Barend. It is really strange. And in addition to this, it defeats its own purpose. If you don't want to show people having sex in a movie then... don't include a sex scene! It's that easy.

Plenty of films do it right by just showing the characters huddling up in bed and then leaving the rest to the imagination... and unless you're making a pornographic film, this seems like a good enough way of handling it.

But for Godsakes, don't have the woman hiding her breasts from the man she's just had sex with. That just looks pathetic.

[J m HofMarN]

Well for one thing the angrry police chief who demands peoples badge and gun and threatens to take them off the case while spilling coffee and donuts (I think I've parodied that quite well)

Also I can't stand the token love interest. I think in some movies it's due and proper but in every damned action flick some whore beast falls into the main characters arms and falls in love with him for no reason.

"Oh! Action hero, your muscles are so big but I cannot yield to my animal desires, at least not until I've been kidnapped and rescued by you."

It's not just action movies either. Not every movie needs a love interest. I can understand it in a movie where the love element serves to reform a character or create inner turmoil or legitimate conflict between characters but in some movies its just stupid. The original trilogy of star wars would not have been the same without the Han Luke Leiah triangle because it drove the plot quite a bit. But take away the love interest in, say, Robin Hood, and you could easily replace the female with a brownie.

"Damn that Sherriff of Nottingham! He's stolen my brownie and locked it in a tower!"

"Robin no, you can't go to rescue it, I'm sure it's a trap! There'll be other brownies!"

"Yes, but this one was double fudge!"

Also, is anyone else getting tired of this whole "people have to be annoying to die" thing in most horror movies? It really does make it rather predictable. I would like to see the following:

Two kids having sex in a creepy forest: My, this sure is some good sex.
Meanwhile...
Kindly old man: I think I'll spend the rest of the evening sending checks to Save The Children.
Cut to a scene of the villain in the woods.
Jason: Grrr....
Two kids having sex: Did you just hear something? It sounded like... like...
Kindly old man: BLARGH THERE'S A MACHETE IN MY BACK!

[Helena]

In action movies, good guys who are captured and tortured by the bad guys:

a) Never talk.
b) Are always perfectly capable of escaping and blasting their way out only a few hours later.
c) Never suffer any lasting physical or mental effects whatsoever (unless they're a Vietnam vet).

Honestly, having met people who've been tortured in real life (I did voluntary work with refugees for a while) I actually find this kind of trivialisation quite offensive. Yes, there are real-life examples of people showing incredible courage under torture, but there's no way anyone would just shrug it off the way movie heroes do. (Notice also that it's only men - it's very rare for movies to show women being tortured.)

[Mike Mac from NYU]

(Notice also that it's only men - it's very rare for movies to show women being tortured.)

Very true. Some absolutely horrible examples of female torture the world over.

Female torture..

Again, the "movie" answer to that is that seeing females tortured is bound to make a majority of viewers too squeamish which could hurt your box office.

For the most part in movies very rarely do you see females graphically killed, hurt or maimed.

When females die it's usually in a very clean way were the is not a lot of blood gore or damage.

And this is not a male superiority thing.

Little Babies get tortured and killed in brutal ways in the real world.

But you'll never see a baby get cut up with shrapnel or anything like that in a movie because it may scare away filmgoers from seeing it.

If you know there was gong to be a scene in Empire Strikes Back were Leia is torture by having hot coals placed on her back. Would you still watch the movie???


unless your into that kind of thing ...........


Just kidding.

[Despondent]

I guess another theme would be reversal of characters. Modern twist on Prince and the Pauper, or Freaky Friday. Maybe a FaceOff or an evil twin. Or a schitzophrenic. In a town like this, it's a comedy of errors and hilarity ensues. This Christmas, be Naughty AND Nice.

[barend]

I agree... MORE FEMALE TORTURE IN FILMS!!!

[Just your average movie goer]

Barend, you are a very sick man but I think we've already established that.

I'm of the mind that we could really do without torture in most films altogether... unless it's trying to be gritty and real and raise awareness of the terrible situations that many people in the world face. But in that instance, it should be very clear that the audience knows this before going into the cinema to watch it.

In more standard entertainment films - action and adventure - I'd prefer no torture as far as possible. And I certainly don't want to see women being tortured. I know it happens in real life but I don't think we need the full extent of the terrible things that happen in the world seeping into films that are meant to be enjoyable and entertaining.

Keep torture for disturbing films and while you're at it, wack a 'disturbing' label on their advisory labels so people like me know not to watch them.


But as for Helena's original point, using torture and trivialising it is NOT cool. And yes, I agree it's highly offensive.

[SimeSublime]

But the term 'disturbing' varies so much from person to person. For example, Harry Potter can be disturbing if you live in the bible belt, or any movie with alcohol can be disturbing if you're a mormon, or just a movie by itself if you're amish.

[Just your average movie goer]

Okay, then "disturbing" for relatively normal people. Although surely these religious groups could coin another term for films that wouldn't go down well with them... leaving "disturbing" just for films with content that could emotionally upset just your average movie goer.

[Laura]

Cute!

But unless you're talking about yourself, there, in which case Hollywood could present a highlights reel of every film to you and you could go "Yes/no/yes/yes/no/no/no", I'm not sure how one could measure that. There are a lot of "gray area" movies.

But I think we can agree to slap a big red D for Disturbing on anything involving Hannibal Lecter.

[Just your average movie goer]

I was thinking along the lines of any film where something truly terrible happens to someone, that they ought to make that clear before you go into the cinema. For example, take a film like Braveheart.

I think it is only fair that people know that an innocent woman gets brutally executed and William Wallace suffers horrendous torture before he is killed. That way, if this stuff bothers you, then you can avoid watching it.

Because sometimes you might see a film that looks like it's up your alley... and then when you watch it, get a really unpleasant surprise that will leave you feeling miserable for days afterwards.

This is why I'd like films to come with a little clearer warning about their nastier content.

[civilian_number_two]

I thnk the story of William Wallace was readily available before the film came out. Sure, there's nothing in there about WW macking on the Queen of England or anything about any ficticious Hollywood women getting killed, but I don't think she got killed all that brutally.

I think BRAVEHEART could be chastised for its silly racism, its homophobic depiction of the Prince of Wales (who was a child at the time, not a sissy-faced faggoty faggot-pants), and its way cool carnage masquerading as patriotism. But the vanilla torture didn't bug me.