[Just your average movie goer]

Sure it might be a little jealousy. Yes, he exaggerates sometimes to make his point, we don't agree with all of his points (or else we wouldn't have watched these films in the first place) etc, etc...

However, it was a very interesting alternative critique, was it not?

[Xombie]

Let me be a bit more clear about what i mean when I say that the Light Side and the Dark Side are Good and Evil. I don't mean that the Dark Siders are evil like, say, the Nazis were evil. Nazis WERE evil but they were not about evil. They were about racism, and conquest, and order over liberty, all of which can justifiably be considered evil. In their own twisted world view the Nazis thought they were the forces of good. No believable Nazi would say: "Come on over to the EVIL side...You have no idea of the power of EVIL! BWAHAHAHA!" Yet that's exactly what happens in the Star Wars films.
The Dark Side is merely a more palatable name for evil just as light sabers sounds better than Lucas's original dorky name of "lazer swords." There is not one good reason shown why anyone would ever choose the Dark Path. The first film suggests that it is a seductive path of expedience, but in truth Luke trains pretty darn quick and is arguably Vader's equal by the third film. What does the "dark side" REALLY offer? Nothing, it would seem. The Dark Side is just a way for Lucas to put the label Evil or "Bad Guy" on Vader and the Emperor and "Good Guy" on Skywalker and Obi Won. Its telling rather than showing.

[Xombie]

Helena,

Yes, Darth sacrifices his life but he doesn't REALLY die. Quite the contrary. He gets to live on forever in Happy Jedi heaven, apparently completely forgiven for all his atrocious crimes. You're right, if I hadn't seen the three ghosts at the end, I might have thought more of Vader's "sacrifice." But I DID see the unholy trinity (the father, the son, and the stupid muppet). And those seconds make the entire trilogy a morally revolting mess.

[Xombie]

Now let me add a few more reasons:

4) It's a boring universe. Every planet is just like Earth only simpler. This planet's a desert planet, that planet's a snowy planet, this planet over here's a woodsy planet. No imagination whatsoever. After the binary star sunset in episode 4 we never see another another exotic astronomical phenomenon again. There are no gas giants in the Star Wars universe, no hellish atmospheres, no gravitationally weak tiny planets (even asteroids have 1 g gravitational strengths). Instead we get Planet Nevada, Planet Alaska, Planet Everglades, and the California Moon of Endor.

5) Lucas is a racist. Jar jar, Watto, and the Nemodians are the final proof but its all there to see (or not be seen) in Ep. 4. There are more muppets in the Star Wars OT universe than there are black people. There are precisely zero in episode 4. This was pointedly noted in 1977 and is the only reason for the addition of Lando in ESB. If Star Wars had been made in the 1950s, this could be put down to the Hollywood zeitgeist. To make such an oversight in the late 70s...something else is going on beyond mere carelessness.

6) The space worm. Armeggedon was the stupidest fucking movie of the 90s. There are a million things that are LAUGHABLY wrong with it. You know what the only thing that could have possibly have made it any stupider would have been? IF BRUCE WILLIS WOULD LANDED HIS SHUTTLE IN AN ASTEROID CAVE THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE MOUTH OF A GIANT SPACE WORM! ESB may be the best movie of the series but the Space Worm is, by far, the dumbest scene. What the fuck? A Space Worm with a mouth big enough to eat a star destroyer, hiding in an asteroid cave waiting for....what? What does it eat? Wandering spaceships on the run from the empire?

7) In space nobody needs anything heavier than a light jacket. Before everyone realizes that they've landed in a giant-ass space worm, they just walk outside the Millenium Falcon into the vacuum of space and all they need is a tiny-ass oxygen mask. Apparently its not as cold as the Ice and snow planet because if it was then the asteroid would have ice and snow, right?

[Just your average movie goer]

Again, all excellent points there, mate.

And

the California Moon of Endor.

is beautiful.

And it's funny you mention that... because it is exactly how I've seen it every time I watch Return of the Jedi.

Tatooine feels like an exotic location. Hoth feels like somewhere in the furthest remote regions of the world.

And Endor feels like some place where you can hop in the car with the kids and go for a day picnic.

[Helena]

The two worlds are very difficult to compare. Star Wars is not sci-fi. It is a fantasy fairytale, in a sci-fi guise perhaps. Star Trek however, is pure sci-fi. I like 'em both, for different reasons. But claiming one is morally superior to the other is stepping out on very thin ice.

Absolutely. One of the things I always hated about Star Trek - and I really do hate it with a passion - is the way it takes itself so bloody seriously, when it's really just as ridiculous as Star Wars in its own way. Trekkies try to make out that it's serious science fiction, even though it's full of ludicrously non-scientific concepts such as alien races who look almost exactly like humans, civilisations with only one language and culture, and planets with a completely uniform climate and Earth-like gravity - not to mention stupid 'comic relief' aliens like the Ferengi. In other words, exactly the same type of thing you see in Star Wars. As for morality, I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of questionably moral stuff in ST as well - like all the episodes where the crew happily condone genocide for the sake of their precious Prime Directive.

SW, on the other hand, is not sci-fi and was not intended to be taken seriously. For all the high-tech stuff, it never pretended to be anything other than pure escapist fantasy. Quite apart from all the factual errors in that article, the author is entirely missing the point - what do you 'learn' from a story like Cinderella? That ugly people are evil, that absolute monarchies are great, that if you let people walk all over you then eventually a fairy will come along and solve all your problems? Honestly, anyone over the age of 5 who bases their moral philosophy on what is basically a modern fairy-tale has something seriously wrong with them.

[Chefelf]

After the binary star sunset in episode 4 we never see another another exotic astronomical phenomenon again. There are no gas giants in the Star Wars universe, no hellish atmospheres, no gravitationally weak tiny planets (even asteroids have 1 g gravitational strengths).

Many good points, however, I must defend Lucas (and you know I hate doing that). Bespin is very much a gas giant. And that silly thing outside the Nebulon B Frigate at the end of ESB is some sort of stellar phenomenon. What? I'm not exactly sure.

[Just your average movie goer]

I always thought it was the galaxy they were looking at... and I thought that delivered a lot of shock value ->

The Empire had delivered such a devastating blow to the rebels that to recover their strength, they hid outside the galaxy.

I thought I read that in the novelisation of The Empire Strikes Back as well.

Any thoughts?

[barend]

although science fact has never been a contributing factor in my labeling of star wars as fantasy instead of science fiction...

i must bring it up now...

spaceships could not manouvre the way they do in space

what you see out the window as 'hyperspace' in no vaugley represents what you would see...

lazers can only be seen in the presence of dense particles such as are found in earths air filed atmosphere... not in the vacuum of space...

ditto sound...

and soooo many more...
and this point i will say... this backs up my opinion (and by definition FACT) that SW is F-A-N-T-A-S-Y!!!

i'm just saying is all....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Despondent]

I believe Yavin was a gas giant. One of the great moments of ESB was towards the end, as tie fighters zap at the falcon there's some kind of solar mechanics going on. Kind of an eclipse? I don't know.

the other night I watched the 2nd half of SW "classic" and really enjoyed it. the horns of the orchestra when Biggs goes down (I may be wrong on that) and the bright light behind the falcon when Han comes in to save Luke's ass. I smile wide at that every time.

Even that xwing commander with the Chuck Yeager drawl. That's where that "pilot dialect" comes from, by the way.

[Chefelf]

I believe Yavin was a gas giant.

Good point. That's two gas giants and counting...

[WhoCares]

"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen."

"Um... but we're getting our asses kicked left right and centre."

"Well... I didn't say that I foresaw bode well for us... I'm just saying that it's what's going on right now."



---

ah, I just got so sick of his 'foreseeing' everything, his "Good! Good!" and general gloating.

I also hated the fact that he SLOUCHED in his chair. What kind of powerful evil leader SLOUCHES? He looked like a fat couch potato, rather than a poweful and feared ruler.

Maybe the power of the light side clouds everything. Holly Shhhhhh

[Xombie]

All right, I concede the point that the Star Wars universe does indeed contain non-Earth planets. I fall back on the position, however, that none of the action in any of the movies takes place on anything other than a little Earth.

[Xombie]

And allow me to add these additional points:

8) There is no sex in Star Wars. I noticed the boxed sets of the OT are on sale now. They've got them in these gold and silver boxes adorned with the poster art from the original release of Star Wars. There's Luke with his tunic open revealing a rippling chest. There's Leia in her princess outfit, except this Princess outfit reveals ACTUAL CLEAVAGE and a slit up the side that allows her to bare a finely toned leg all the way up to the royal thigh. That's what the posters promised. What did the movie deliver? Mark Hamill keeps his shirt on and Carrie Fisher wears an outfit that is only a veil short of being a freakin burka. When Leia ends up in a slave girl outfit in RotJ its about as sexy as 1923 full body swimsuit.
"What do you want, Xombie?" you may be asking. "this is a PG adventure film that appeals to kids."
I want the same steaminess that karen Allen brought to Raiders of the Lost Ark or Racquel Welch brought to Richard Lester's 1973 Three Musketeers. Of course it doesn't help that...

9) Princess Leia is one of the worst written roles for an actress ever. Poor Leia is forced to watch her home planet, the planet she is the princess of, the planet on which her friends and family live, blown to pieces before her very eyes, all in an effort to get her to talk. And yet, the next time we see her, less than 24 hours later, her first words are (sarcastically) "Aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper?" Wow, that's a record for speed-mourning. And get this: Leia never mentions her blown-up planet to anyone, at any time in the series. She's smiling at the awards ceremony which can't be more than 48 hours after her fucking planet has been vaporized! She's even happy to see one of the architects of the genocide get into Jedi heaven. What a tee-total stone-cold fucking bitch. And you guys think Amidala is creepy?

But then it's not just her because:

10) NO ONE mentions Alderran again after Obi Won notes the disturbace in the Force. Any one remember what it was like two days after the twin towers came down. Come on.

[Chefelf]

NO ONE mentions Alderran again after Obi Won notes the disturbace in the Force. Any one remember what it was like two days after the twin towers came down. Come on.

Which is precisely why Naboo should not exist and Alderaan should be in its place. Ridiculous that it is not this way.