[Just your average movie goer]

R'n'B is not something I really listen too often but recently, I've come to realise that some of it has real potential. And really, it should. This is music predominently by black people, the people who have the most beautiful natural singing voices in the world.

Often when I hear an R'n'B song, I'll think "That could have been a good song. It's a shame about...."

A shame about what exactly?

The arrogant, misogynist guy they bring in, who makes a little slow rap in a voice that can best be described as "the voice of a lazy sleaze-type".

These guys generally say something along the lines of "Hey ho. I'm the number one, ya know. Girls dig me. I'm the real thing-ee. I'm kind of like Brad Pitt but I've got a bigger kit."

Maybe I'm an really strange person. Maybe I'm crazy. But I'm not interested in this. I don't want to hear it and I certainly don't want to hear it in music. When I listen to music, I want to hear ... well ... MUSIC. You know, like melodies, singing - that kind of thing.

I'll make an example of this problem. I was just listening to Beyonce Knowle's Crazy in Love. It should be a really great song. The little tune she made up is really catchy, which gives it a great listener-friendly quality. And Beyonce's voice is beautiful.

It's not a great song though. Why? Because for reasons that I do not understand, for reasons I will never understand, she invited some character called Jay Z (or something like that - one of those fools who don't use real names) to perform on the song with her. And it is terrible.

How can I describe his contribution to the song? It's obnoxious. The lyrics are fairly misogynist in nature and offensive. He does exactly what I described earlier in that he goes on about himself in a sleazy manner. It's intrusive, it's unwelcome and it just ruins the entire song. It's as if Beyonce made a beautiful painting and this guy came in with a can of spraypaint and de-faced it with graffiti scrawl.

Why would Beyonce have done this? Why would anyone with a beautiful voice and some actual musical talent let other people come in and vandalise their work? If this guy had done a duet with her, that could have been nice... but this was not the case.

R'n'B artists seem to do well regardless of whether their music is good or not, as do many musicians out there. But when will people realise that there is more to music than financial success? Money and fame are wonderful things, to be sure to be sure. But if you have the ability, as many of these artists do, why not make great music as well?


- Movie Goer

[SimeSublime]

I have to agree. I made a similar(though shorter)post once and Heccubus shot me down soon after, so I sort of hung my head in shame and hid in the corner, but now that I'm not alone, I'll happily join the podium. What I would suggest, is to just not listen to American rap/r&b. Sure, some of its good, but most of it(that I've heard)is just a bunch of try hard gangsters singing about hoes, drugs and how tough they are. One that really annoys me is Missy Eliot, who at the start of one of her tracks that Triple J kept playing last year(I think), pretty much just slagged off a bunch of her fans outside of a concert, then told them all to buy her new album. Shit like that just pisses me off. People say it has to do with the culture that the music grew out of, but I think thats crap. Sure, it may have started in the ghettos, but that doesn't mean the music has to stay there. I've heard some Australian versions that I much prefer. I won't list many artists simply because I don't know who they are. I've noticed that they come from a completely different culture and acknowlege that. They don't try to rap about all the bullshit that we usually have to put up with, but rather just about various other topics. And they're not up themselves either. For example, the Hilltop Hoods from Adelaide(who are also played on Triple J a lot)wrote a song(I think it's called Nosebleed Section)thanking the fans for making them what they are. I'm sorry to say that I don't know the name of my favourite example, or who sinigs it, but it actually slags off the whole wigga culture we have breeding over here. Makes me smile whenever I hear it.

Now, take into account that all this is generalisations based on my opinion and what I've heard. I know not every American rapper are self-obsessed criminals, and that they sing about what their lives are like, and what not, but quite frankly, I don't want to hear about it. Sure, I think that Eminem's Slim Shady Song is quite funny, but when he did that CD with all his old friends, their music just disgusted me.

[Just your average movie goer]

I'm glad I'm not alone in this either. You're right about the Australian artists. I heard this great song called "My culture" made an Aboriginal group and it was amazing. A really beautiful song. It actually had a cameo by Robbie Williams but it wasn't at all intrusive and it seemed to work really well with the song.

But whoever the hell came onboard for Beyonce's song completely ruined it.

Sure, it may have started in the ghettos, but that doesn't mean the music has to stay there.

This is a very fine point you make, Sime. And very well put.

[Chefelf]

Anyone who doesn't believe that R&B is good should be forced to listen to Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will.

I guess it depends how you define R&B, though.

Moving to the music forum.

[Just your average movie goer]

.... where it will fade into obscurity and will never be heard of again.

[Slade]

I've never really listened to R&B, but the way you put it, it sounds exactly like the current rap incarnations... I thought R&B was more like the slower soulish sounding stuff?

Man, where did the greats like "Easy Mutha F'in E" get to? Old school gangsta rap makes me laugh.

This post has been edited by Slade: 08 October 2004 - 10:40 AM

[barend]

RnB (Rythuummmm and bluuues)
refers to what ray charles, early stevie wonder and BB King, and hooker did, not the top 40 bullshit modeled off the god forsaken fugees and boyz 2 men, that calls itslef RnB....

that date rape pushing crap sucks major ass!!! and i'm fucking sick of it...

almost every track in the insultingly named "top" 40 has been a preeprogrammed drum machine on a ridiculously slow hip hop beat and slow programmed bass, with the occasional virtual instrument 'hit'...
don't get me wrong i like elctronic music, but THAT "RnB" shit lacks SOUL!!!

what's worse is i often recognise the same backing track over and over again... it's like they have been using the same three backing tracks for virtually every top 40 song for the last 12 years!

it is a crime against art...

the only decent tracks out there have been the ones that sample 60s music, and that milshake one (that video clip is the most erotic thing ever put to film) + it has cool keyboards...

more PEPSI corrosion on mainstream music... in it's purest form.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[SimeSublime]

Would that be the same milkshake song from Dodgeball?

[srmoore]

My problem is that R&B means Rythum and Blues... and most htings labeled R&B these days have neither.. and thus suck.

Ooorrr.. what Barend said a few posts ago.. I was quick to post my rant like bit.

[barend]

1. the milkshake song... it's the one with that really really sexy black girl... (the whole clip is like that add in the movie 'boomerang' [w/eddie murphey] with the girls licking the cheries and sucking the bannana)... it's utterly comical the amount of sexual inuendo... so comical it works in fact... and it's sung by that "i hate you so much right now!!!" girl...

(not the Village people song from YCSTM- which is by far the gayest song ever written - and i mean that litterally)

2. it was probably in dodgeball... man that film was great...
"fucking chuck norris"

[Creaux]

I have a VERY deep respect for Blues, and a growing appreceation for Jazz, but there are few songs in either RnB or Hip Hop that I like. Why? The negativity of it all. The need to try to bethe scarriest "muthafucka" around. It's pueile. Purile. Can't spell. The Hip Hop I do like is stuff like Run DMC or Beastie Boys that is more playful and, well, interesting.

And don't get me started on contemporary reggae. I'm not the hugestfan of any sort of reggae, but contemporary reggae is offensive, it takes the wonderful "broken washing machine" sound from Tehcno and abuses it even more than most techno songs, it is simply horrible stuff.

Hmph. I don't like negativity. So, I'll end this message with thoughts of...um...the smell of rain, how refreshing and nice it is. Even in places like Pittsburgh.

[SimeSublime]

2. it was probably in dodgeball... man that film was great...
"fucking chuck norris"

Watch Dodgeball to the end of the credits and you'll see what I mean

On another note, I heard a rap song the other night pointing out how great lawn bowls clubs and RSL's are. Didn't catch the name of it though.