[barend]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm........

[Commoner]

Thanks.

No....thank you.

[Just your average movie goer]

You're welcome.

[Just your average movie goer]

Today, I'd like to discuss three scenes in Return of the Jedi that are not wholly bad on a conceptual level but seem to irk me whenever I view them.

First scene

Han - Look, I want you to take her. I mean it. Take her. You need all the help you can get. She's the fastest ship in the fleet.

Lando - Alright old buddy. You know, I know what she means to you. I'll take good care of her. She, she won't get a scratch. Alright?

Han - Right. I got your promise now. Not a scratch.


Does this irk anyone else? The first part of the conversation is fine. No problem. Han is insisting that Lando borrows the Mellenium Falcon. But when Lando says "I'll take good care of her. She, she won't get a scratch.", it sounds as though Lando had been begging Han to lend him the ship.

And the way Han says "Right." adds to this illusion and makes it seem as though he is quite reluctant, almost loathe, to lend his precious ship to Lando.

It really irks me, I'm not kidding you. It seems like they filmed two scenes -

1. Han insists on Lando taking the ship and Lando reluctantly accepts this offer that he feels is really too generous on Han's part.

2. Lando begs and begs for Han to lend him his ship and Han finally gives in, but he's very reluctant about it.


And what we got onscreen was a combination of the first and the second scene that just doesn't gel.


Second scene

Leia - Hey. Are you awake?

Han (looking at the Falcon) - Yeah. I've just got a funny feeling - like I'm not going to see her again.


Come on! Why is that scene in there? This scene was clearly made when Lucas still intended for Lando to die at the end of the movie.

When he changed the ending so Lando lived, why did Lucas leave this little exchange in the movie? It's meaningless and some may say there's nothing wrong with it. But there is something wrong with it - it's a reminder that Lucas changed his mind at the last minute about a big dramatic moment at the end of the film. I have no problem with Lucas' decision about changing that ending, none at all - but he should have cut this as well because now it feel out of place and more than a little ackward.



Third scene

Officer - We're in attack position now, Sir.

Admiral Piett - Hold here.

Captain - We're not going to attack?


This looks fine. And it is fine - everything was fine about this piece of dialogue.... except for the actor who played the Captain.

"We're not going to attack?" is a question. The Captain is a bit surprised by Admiral Piett's decision to stay where they were and so he asked this.

However, the actor who delivers the line says it as a statement, almost like a gentle admonishment - "Don't be silly, man. We're not going to attack."

This is just inexcusable bad acting. Maybe he couldn't work out how to say his line from the context of the rest of the dialogue - that's still pretty piss poor - but this guy couldn't even modulate his voice in such a way as to indicate he was asking a question? Unbelievable. It makes me wonder if the actor had enough literacy skills to recognise this ? grammatical marker.





Okay, onto a positive. I really, really loved it when the AT-AT comes out of the Endor forest at night to deliver Luke to Darth Vader. It's fantastic. For a few glorious seconds, the movie felt like The Empire Strikes Back.

[Despondent]

I like the scene where the ewok slingshots himself.

[Just your average movie goer]

Yup. Nothing like a bit of slapstick comedy to give you that mythic transporting feeling that you're watching an epic tale in a galaxy far, far away.

[Just your average movie goer]

Here's a positive for you!



One of the greatest climactic moments in cinema. There, I do think there are some good parts to this movie.

[Despondent]

Movie Goer, you bring such nice pictures to the forum.

How about the stick figures on Jabba's barge? I don't like it when folks say "I can only draw stick figures." Don't limit yourself, just expand on what you do. That scene is positive reinforcement for everyone waiting to expose hidden talents.

[Just your average movie goer]

Thanks. If I find any such pictures, I'll put them up.

[Vwing]

I suppose what I'm noticing the most is: In the music there are a Lot of those chirpy Williams woodsey bird songs. do-dee doo doo doot dee do. The kind of soundtrack for Nature's funniest home videos.

I wonder if this is because other than the big space/emperor scenes at the end, there wasn't as much substance to score? To his credit, he must not have wanted to upstage Lucas. So kudos to Lucas for hiring Williams.

OK, just a warning Despondent, most people don't know this about me. You can say anything you want about JEDI I won't get upset. But if you mention ANYTHING bad about the scores of ANY of these movies, including Episodes I and II, well, I can't be held responsible for my actions. Return of the Jedi is actually a better score, in my humble opinion than ESB. It takes every single theme of the trilogy and weaves it into a grand tapestry of music that the final movie of a trilogy deserves to have. He introduces the Emperor's theme, and has about 35 minutes of grand original score for the 3 climactic battles at the end. At the beginning, the score is not as noticeable, but from Yoda's death on, it is a fabulous score. The chirpy songs are few and far between, used mainly just for the Ewoks, and not that much. So seriously, say ROTJ was the worst movie in the history of cinema, that's fine, but do NOT insult the score.

[Just your average movie goer]

Come on, Vwing. A lot of the score is good, true... but those Ewok tunes and the music for Jabba the Hutt really brings the overall score down.

And the score for The Empire Strikes Back is hundreds of times better. In fact it's so good, that they ripped off some of the music for it in this film.

Remember when Lando flies into the Death Star's core? Well, the music you hear onscreen is not the music that was recorded for the scene. You can hear that music on the soundtrack.

No, the music you hear in the movie is the same music that was used when Leia brought the Falcon in to rescue Luke when he was hanging off the bottom of Cloud City.


As for the music for Episode I and II, I can't really comment on it as I can't remember ANY of it. But I'm not sure if being instantly forgettable is a good thing for a music score.

Sure, I've only seen Episode I once and Episode II twice (I was hoping that it would miraculously change into a better movie on my second viewing - I was wrong).... but after seeing The Fellowship of the Ring just once at the cinema, the soundtrack was playing in my head over and over again for a long time.

[Vwing]

The fact is the ESB score is great, but in terms of complexity I do not think matches the ROTJ score. And of course I realized that the music used for the Death Star was from ESB in Cloud City, and that it isn't the recorded music. Whatever, so that's 15 seconds of music used, and it worked, so why complain?

I will actually go one step further. I believe the scores for Episodes I and II are better then the OT scores. They still achieve the bombastic nature of the OT scores, but add such a deeper, complex, darker note (no pun intended) that it really pulls them above the OT scores. Across the Stars (the love theme from Episode II) in and of itself has a level of greatness that no track of the OT achieved. The reason the score wasn't playing in your head is because the scores were wasted on bad movies. I bought the soundtracks to each movie, and I fell in love with them. I think I even like them more than Shore's magnificent scores for LOTR, but that's just because I like the themes in SW more (nothing can ever match the Force theme).

[Just your average movie goer]

Fair enough. I think partially, it comes down to a matter of personal taste. I, for example, think I like Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings score better than John William's Star Wars score - although it's a bit hard to compare them. Very different types of scores for very different types of movies.

With reference to Return of the Jedi borrowing a piece of music straight out of The Empire Strikes Back, I agree - it worked wonderfully and by no means was I complaining. What I meant was, it was a testimony to The Empire Strikes Back's score that Return of the Jedi borrowed from it when it came to a big climactic moment.

I prefer The Empire Strikes Back's score for some of the same reasons I prefer the movie - it's darker, edgier and more dramatic. Who could forget the first time we heard the Imperial March or the music that accompanied the desperate race through the asteroid field?

The music may be simple in comparison to some of John Williams' other work - but it is powerful, distinctive and engaging. And for the record, distinctive is an adjective that does not fit any of the music for the prequels. If I can do so without handing any money over, I'll listen to the prequel soundtracks and see if I change my mind about them. But from memory, I thought they were lacking in themes.

All the great soundtracks are built from a small base of themes for different characters and so on - and these themes are skillfully woven into the music at the appropriate dramatic points to tell the story. This helps the story. Your favourite, the force theme, adds to the poignancy of scenes related to the force, arriving at a beautiful climax when Yoda lifts Luke's X-Wing out from the swamp.

It's beautiful and it works really well. However, I could not hear any repeated themes or motiffs in the score for the prequels. They were really indistinctive to my ear. But granted, they were wasted on terrible movies so that may well be part of the problem.

Cheers.

- Movie Goer

[Despondent]

Ok, I did not buy the Jedi score as I had for Empire and SW. Just seemed a shame to only devote one LP so I presumed a little; and that's a shame in itself

Can C3P0 keep a secret? My overriding question is, who all knew about the plot to break Han free? Obviously Han didn't know, I'm not sure about 3P0 "He Agrees!" give me a break. that sounded like true robot elation to me.

and the parade of good guys dropping in on Jabba- droids, wookiiee/BH and Luke. Maybe that did tip Jabba pals to "sleep on the floor" waiting for the fireworks to begin.

just a few thoughts. I'm sure a lot of deliberate thought went into making the scene we'd all waited 3 years for. (Although it seemed the plan was wrapped up when Chewie and Lando sailed into the sunset at the end of ESB)

which begs the question Why? to catch up with Boba? no. To get to the lair before Luke and Leia? no. to provide satisfactory lead in to the next film? Only on the merits of ESB.