[Just your average movie goer]

No, that's a very fine post. I could not agree more.

They were all idiots. A couple of them are dead. Some others survived to breed.

That is fantastic. It's just so succint and well-worded. You could make that your signature if you wanted.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Prophecies are boring. They are weak excuses for storytellers to work in foreshadowing. Cleverly handled, they can be very nice, but let's be honest: when have they ever been cleverly handled? not very damn often, that's when.

I disagree on the basis that prophecies aren't used that often in storytelling to begin with. There an element of FANTASY films {y'know sword and sorcery} and biblical stories. The prophecy does help in highlighting the Fantasy elements

Prophecies are actually a device to highlight a particalur conflict in literature. CAN MAN ESCAPE HIS DESTINY???
Which is a very interesting conflict, when you thing about it. Are people doomed to follow a certain path or can they escape that path and choose a different destiny?

The problem with the Star Wars prophecy is that it wasn't handled cleverly, just as civilian said.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

The problem with the Star Wars PT destiny is...that

1. It is not clearly defined...T"The chosen one who will bring balance to the force"...What the f**@ is that supposed to me? explain Mace Windau??

2. It's only refered to once in the entire two PT films. Year here Mace Windau mention it.....AND THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How important can it be if you only mention it in ONE line of speech!!!!!!!!

3. This prophecy would be more effective if there was some background to it or some story to it. In LOTOR, we are told the story of the ONE RING. Where the heck is the back story to this prophecy.


This prophecy is like many of the things of the PT, completely forgotten by George Lucas in his piecing together of this garbage!!

[civilian_number_two]

Prophecies are actually a device to highlight a particalur conflict in literature. CAN MAN ESCAPE HIS DESTINY???

If you say so. I've noticed the best prophecies in literature are the ones where a prediction is made, and people work to avoid it, only later to discover they'd been working to fulfill it. Hence the prophecy is foreshadowing, but not lame foreshadowing.

In fantasy films prophecies pretty much always tell you that the hero will succeed, and then he succeeds. This would have been a nice device 3000 years ago, when everyone already knew the four or five stories that were floating around; the poet says, the Gods wanted all of this, and I can prove it. Now: here's how it happened. In today's fiction, prophecies are stupid and redundant. I fact, their only purpose, rather than to add weak foreshadowing, is to elevate the story to the level of the ancient myths. Phrases like "It was foretold" and "1000 generations" are meant to make the thing special, and Lucas certainly wants to make book on this whole "Hero With 1000 Faces" analogy he's bought and resold.

In fact, however, as most here agree, the prophecy, even handled well, just smacks of desperation. You can actually see the writer looking for something to make his story powerful and relevant. I'm happy to say Tolkien did not give in to any temptation; nor did the makers of that fine film DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS (infinitely better than TPM).

PS: I do not oppose stories that combine Classical o Biblical elements, or stories that create a hstory for their universe. Having a thing occur or an artifact unerathed that leans on an ancient tradition, say like Aragorn using the sword of an ancient king to delcare hmself king, this is the stuff of good backstory. But unless I was alive when the prophecy was made about the one who would balance the force (I was not), then seeing a kid and being told he's th one in the prophecy actually makes me wish I was still watching the pod raace. Commentator, poo doo, Willow, and all.

[Jordan]

Lucas certainly wants to make book on this whole "Hero With 1000 Faces" analogy he's bought and resold.

What do you mean by "hero with 1000 faces"? All the chracters on the side of good?

[civilian_number_two]

What do you mean by "hero with 1000 faces"? All the chracters on the side of good?

Not at all.

Lucas claimed, after someone pointed out to him that his story followed several basic myths, that he had intended all along to create some mythic fable. Rather than continue to admit he'd borrowed lock, stock and barrel from Kurasawa, Tolkien, and Frank Herbert, he pretended he'd been looking to Classical and religious sources he's likely never even read. Anyway, here's the book he referenced:

http://www.chapters....on=books&zxac=1

It's pretty interesting; Lucas's pretense is not.

[barend]

just quickly...
destiny: cool
prophesy: suck

there were no prophets spoken of... if someone used the force to look far ahead, then wrote it down, it would have been much cooler to say...
"Do you think this child may be the one who will change the fortunes of the galaxy as Maiy Kup Aname frosore?"

This post has been edited by barend: 28 July 2004 - 09:51 PM

[Garth Vader]

Apart from qui gon being a stoner

Well, I guess I was trying to deal with what Spice was, what was the point of it. I know Lucas ripped the idea off from Dune, so I figure that's what it'd be used for, for non-sensitive Force-users to 'get in touch' with the Force. However, I might be dropping this idea, and dealing with Kenobi's "pupils" one of them being named "Darth Vader," and then he picks up Anakin as a student, too, making Darth Vader somewhat jealous of this new acquisition.

the queen being a clone

I couldn't think of a better way for the bad guys to go after her. The 'she must sign the treaty' storyline sucks sucks sucks....

and anakin not being a slave

I've never liked the idea of Anakin being a slave. It complicates too much.

I think that's the best damn re-write I've ever read.

Thank you.

Would be perfect for the start of the star wars prequel trilogy. I like how you have more involvment of the sith and the rift between the gungans and the people of alderaan more explained and obi wan being the central character with more depth eg. purposefully trying to unite the people of alderaan.

Also mentioning clone technology means episode II will involve more of the clone wars without any of that jango/boba fett crap.

Agreed. I always figured Boba was just one of the last Clone Troopers. I could see armies of him on the march. Real enemies to battle rather than the stupid robots.

You could have darth cise being killed by qui gon in the first lightsabre duel on tatooine to make the final lightsabre battle a bit more emotionally intense with maul getting revenge on obi wan and qui gon for the death of his apprentise.

Agreed. Good idea.

hey, got any re-writes for episode II yet or the rest of episode I. Your ideas are very good.

[Commoner]

hey, got any re-writes for episode II yet or the rest of episode I. Your ideas are very good.

Thanks. I do have some ideas, they're dependent upon the final draft of the Ep. I rewrite, but essentially, it's a fix of AOTC.

First, I'd simply call it "The Clone Wars." The wars would've raging between the Republic and the Mandalores, and the Jedi, and the Republic is taking a sound beating. They just don't have the man-power, and the worlds are having enough trouble just defending themselves.

Amidala is not a Senator, she's an advisor (but I haven't fleshed out WHY she's returning to Coruscant, perhaps just to give advice or information, or she's with several who are against the creation of the clones because its stolen technology--but the other senators see it as Alderaan with-holding technology from them which could win the war).

Obi-Wan and Anakin are there to greet her at the platform. Again, there is an attempted assassination. Amidala is disguised as one of the guards. Anakin doesn't realize this. He thinks Amidala has been killed. While Anakin mourns over the body, Amidala, angry about all of the assassination attempts, runs to a speeder and chases off in the direction of the glint of the gun on the rooftop.

Anakin realizes that it's not Amidala, and that it's her in the speeder. He chases after her to stop her, but it's too late. He goes hunting for a speeder, too.

Jango is the one who attempted to kill Amidala, not Zam (not at first). As he's putting his weapon away, he sees Amidala flying up after him. He shoots down her speeder and she has no choice to bail the burning vehicle. Anakin, along with Obi-Wan, zip down and catch Amidala before she hits the ground. At this point, she realizes that it's Anakin. The chase in the movie is moved up to this point then. They corner him in a bar, but he manages to escape via his jetpack through the glass ceiling. Jango leaves behind a piece of his equipment which they can use to trace him.

Amidala is returned safely so she can give her deposition, but the vote is taken, and Bail and Amidala are overwhelmingly over-ruled. The Republic will use Alderaan cloning technology to build armies to counter the Mandalores. Defeated, Amidala decides to return home, but the Council send Anakin and Obi-Wan along to protect her, however, Obi-Wan wants to follow up the clue left behind by Jango. He sends Anakin alone with Amidala, and he'll join him later.

Jango, knowing his cover is blown, hires Zam to continue the attempt on Amidala's life (my reasoning behind the assassination attempt is that Amidala is beloved by the populace, and her death would catapult the whole galaxy into war). Being, a shape-shifter, Zam follows them.

However, Anakin senses they are being followed, and to throw off anybody's trail, Anakin disobey's orders and goes to Tatooine (with Amidala's blessing) to check on his mother.

On Tatooine, Anakin briefly visits with Watto, learns that Cliegg indeed used Anakin's winnings to buy a farm outside of the city. As in AOTC, Shmi has been taken by the Tusken Warriors, Cliegg has been injured. There is a search party still out looking for Shmi, Owen is with them. Anakin goes out and finds the party who are looking down at the Tusken encampment.

Against, Owen's protests, Anakin leaps down and attacks the camp before Owen's horrorified eyes. Anakin is the monster which Owen always feared he'd become.

Meanwhile, utilizing some clue Jango left behind Obi-Wan goes to Dexter who is waiting for Anakin at a grimy diner (a really grimy diner). Dexter---being a prospector---recognizes the material Jango left behind and I.D.'s it to Geonosis, a world that is rich in resources, but in Mandalore territory. Since Obi-Wan can not go to Geonosis officially, he asks Dexter to take him there.

Anakin brings Shmi back home and she dies there. Anakin swears he'll never return to Tatooine. He and Amidala embark for Alderaan.

Obi-Wan and Dexter arrive at Geonosis. Rather than an asteroid field around the planet, there is a giant man-made ring which is the Mandalores' secret base, where they build the ships, manufacture the weapons, etc. utilizing the resources of the planet.
Dexter's ship is detected, shot at it despite Obi-Wan's best efforts to fend them off (I have a scene in mind where they fly and dodge through the massive shipyard structure to escape the Mandalore's guns). They manage to crashland the ship on Geonosis. Dexter holds them off while he commands Obi-Wan to escape and get word back to Coruscant on the hidden base. Knowing that his friend is right, Obi-Wan leaves Dexter behind.

In the meantime, Anakin and Amidala have returned to Alderaan. To take Anakin's mind off his mother's death, she takes him on a tour of her land. They can discuss politics and such, but no silly waterfall, shaak-riding, fireplace tease scenes. There is obviously something between them, but they don't make a move...yet. Unknown to them (Anakin's abilities are confused by his grief and allure to Amidala) Zam has killed a servant and impersonating her.

Back on Geonosis, Obi-Wan discovers the Mandalores have forced the Geonosians into slave labour, mining out the much-needed resources. They see Obi-Wan, but don't give away his presence to the Mandalores. Anakin also discovers where they build their war-machines. Obi-Wan discovers the presence of a Sith Lord (the Count). They sense each other, erupt into a saber battle, only to have the Sith Lord win the encounter. Obi-Wan is taken as his prisoner.

Back on Alderaan, Zam uses native poisonous centipedes to kill her. Amidala is expecting the attack, so she kills one centipede, but does not see the other, which drops on her, Anakin flies into the room, kills it, saving her life. Also, it's an awkward moment as they both realize they are nearly half-naked. Anakin chases after Zam, captures her. Zam gives some information as to who hired her, and where he can be found (Geonosis).

Anakin contacts the council. They tell him to stay on Alderaan, to protect Amidala, but Anakin, from a half-galaxy away can sense his master/friend being tortured. He doesn't want the same thing that happened to Shmi to happen to Obi-Wan. Urged on by Amidala, they embark for Geonosis.

Count taunts Obi-Wan, telling him that the Sith are behind the Clone Wars, and that they are about to attack. Count, being a brief mentor to Obi-Wan tells him the dark side is stronger, that Yoda is a fool, etc., etc. He gives Obi-Wan an opportunity to join him, but of course, knowing that Obi-Wan won't accept, he orders his execution....

Amidala and Anakin arrive at Geonosis. Anakin uses a trick to attach to a Mandalore ship to get down to the planet without being detected. They sneak around the planet, also noticing that the Geonosians are enslaved.

This is as far as I have gotten.

[Garth Vader]

Pretty good commoner, but i don't think Episode II needs a re-write in terms of plot, I actually think Lucas created a good story for AOTC. However, the screenwriting and direction and a lot of the acting and dialogue left much to be desired and ruined the good story. Do you think the clone wars should erupt at the end of episode II or do you think they should be central to it ie lots of clone war battles throughout? If it's the latter then you have to change basically all of episode I's plot to accomodate the clone wars.