[Paladin]

Mike, Sir Alec Guniess (Obi-wan) was a pretty old man when he played his role in 1977. Pity he isn't around to see the final episode (he died in 2000).

[barend]

let me just say...

NO MORE FUCKING PROPHESIES IN FILM!!!

[barend]

seriously!!!

the only bloody films that should even use the word are relegious and apocalypse films... and even then most relgious films don't!!!

nothing uncredifies a film like that....
"It is your destiny" was great in SW:OT...
"You hear that, Mr.Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability." was awsome in the matrix

but both franchises came back with this prophesy crap! WHY????
the first matrix said that Neos comming was foretold, in the sense that he was the reincarnation of a previous saviour type, who given the cirumstance of their existence was not so ridiculous an idea as programming loops would occur and patterns would exist, nicley explained by the architect (the only part of that film i liked, despite the overuse of words designed to alienate the kind of people the film seemed to be otherwise catered to, ie. dumb people, therefore creating an inconsistency with the rest of the draw-out-the-obvuious plot/script).
also Le Matrice (as the french call it), had alot of religious overtones, (Nebacadnessar, Zion, er... Morpheus sounds like Moses etc.)
which excused it, but the rest?....



Star Wars (or Krieg Der Stern as the Germans call it) spewed forth alot of destiny this and destiny that, but it was cool....

what's the point of watching something that's predetermined? Espessially in a prequel!!! The prophesy, just seems like a cheap excuse for the characters to vaguley talk about the events of the original films!!!
Mace:[i] "oh is this kid the skywalker from the other films?"

I mean really!

[Helena]

Yeah, I agree that the whole 'prophecy' thing should have been abandoned. The Jedi 'religion' just does not strike me as the type that would have prophecies - I mean, how would it come about? Yeah, the Jedi may occasionally be able to forsee things a short way in the future (like Luke dreaming of his friends being tortured in ESB), but I don't see how you could have a dream or vision of a vague, abstract concept like a Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. Especially if it were hundreds or thousands of years into the future.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Yeah, I agree that the whole 'prophecy' thing should have been abandoned. The Jedi 'religion' just does not strike me as the type that would have prophecies - I mean, how would it come about? Yeah, the Jedi may occasionally be able to forsee things a short way in the future (like Luke dreaming of his friends being tortured in ESB), but I don't see how you could have a dream or vision of a vague, abstract concept like a Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. Especially if it were hundreds or thousands of years into the future.

I will disagree on the whole prophecy issue.

To me the biggest problem with the prophecy is that it is completetly abandoned in Episode II.

The main purpose of the Prophecy was to unite the two trilogies together. To explain what the grand scheme of Anakin and Lukes journey through the story.

Unfortunately it was done in so lame a matter that the whole prophecy was simply stupid.

I think that a prophecy could work and might enhance the star Wars universe especially if you consider that it could combine all three of Star Wars "time periods"

1. Before A New Hope
2. ANH to Return of the Jedi
3. After Return of the Jedi

I kind of developed a type of prophecy in my own rewrite of the PT and my own sequel trilogy ideas.

I call it the "The Skywalker Prophecy".

Basically the gist of this prophecy was that several years before Episode I, some Jedi seers, had a vison of the end of the jedi Knights and a massive attack on the universe by beings from the darkside {I'll explain later}. Apparently a vision stated that the universe' salvation would come from "......he who walks among the skies!!!!!!"

I know this sounds a little lame, but i am still fleshing it out.

[Helena]

I don't see that it would help 'tie the trilogies together' at all - for one thing, it introduces the question of why none of this was ever mentioned in the OT. Yeah, I suppose you could just say that no one ever bothered, but it's a bit weak - and why deliberately add a continuity problem when there's absolutely no need? If you need a reason for Obi-Wan to want to train Anakin, apart from his strength in the Force, it could be that the Skywalker family were great Jedi in ancient times and Anakin was thought to be a descendent.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

If you need a reason for Obi-Wan to want to train Anakin, apart from his strength in the Force

Funny you should mention Obi-Wan's motives. My reason for creating the prophecy really wasn't to give Obi-Wan a reason for teaching Anakin {something that was botched completely in the PTs}

My idea of what obi-Wan's reasons for teaching Anakin which I gathered from teh OTs

1. Pure friendship between him and Anakin
2. Arrogance [Obi-Wan wanted to prove himself worthy of being as great a Jedi and jedi Master as Yoda.}
3. Obi-Wan truly believed that turning Anakin to a Jedi was the right thing to do


To me the whole motives behind why Obi-Wan showed interest in Anakin are the crux of the whole story of Episode I. Lucas messed it up by bringing in a completely uneccesary character in Qui-Gon Jinn.

[barend]

to expand a little on Helenas last post...

why did he have to be found... why the big mystery of his origins?
the only thing important is that something went wrong where he was not trained under the proper circumstance. Non of this imaculate conception bullshit!!!

I'll tell you two things right now!!! Anikan isn't lacking a father... his mother shmi just had her memory erased... that's the big suprise for Ep3!!! Palpatine is Anikans father, gawd, it's so lame and predictable! That's what lucas has been planning!
his only option now is to abandon that... which would be more lame because it would be another unexplained mystery that ought naught to have never ever been brought up!

options:
1-palpy begot annie begat luke... why did Vader not mention this in ROTJ, it could have been the emotional sucker punch that would have pushed luke into the dark side (and before you say, to protect his son with the little good in there - NO THE EMPEREOR WOULD HAVE BROUGHT IT UP!!!)
2-Nothing... oooh riveting stuff that nothing! can't get enough!!!!

[Helena]

1-palpy begot annie begat luke... why did Vader not mention this in ROTJ, it could have been the emotional sucker punch that would have pushed luke into the dark side (and before you say, to protect his son with the little good in there - NO THE EMPEREOR WOULD HAVE BROUGHT IT UP!!!)

"Luke... I AM YOUR GRANDFATHER!"

"Nooooooo!"

Seriously, though, where did you read that Palpatine would turn out to be Anakin's father? When Chefelf said so in his list I thought it was a joke...

[barend]

Excacataly... my dear!

so far the only damn thing that has tied in the new to the old, is an explanation as to why the sandpeople give luke such a hard time in SW:ANH.

I can't remember the scorce for that one 'cept it was before ep.1 was released... I was bitching about the the 'rumor' that anikan would be an imaculate conception and some one walked pass saying: "dude, even lucas wouldn't do something that lame!"

but i guess we showed him!

i was talking to someone, and now i have forgotten... but it was documented somewhere that the emporer was ment to go around doing that sort of thing here and there...

but i remember not the exact circumstance, but i am confident that my above statement is TRUE...

[Garth Vader]

Okay, in my re-writes, I'm torn between keeping the Trade Federation (but improving them in some respects, like speaking an alien language and their droids more menacing---like Terminators, which speak in electronic grunts, and led by a Neimodian droid commander)..

..or by replacing them with the Mandalorians who are a dying race (and also use the above improved battled droids), but come to Alderaan (not Naboo) to steal its cloning technology under the guise of demanding payment for their services in trading goods.

In my re-write Amidala is a Queen, but she is not elected. She is actually the clone of a beloved Queen who has been cloned before. The original queen was very wise and led her people to prosperity, and she also ordered the release of the Gungans who were once genetically engineered slaves. This is why the Gungans revere her and go to the "sacred place" where her very image is seen in the partially submerged statues in the swamp.

However, she is the ONLY true cloned being on the planet, and some of her genetic information is vital in the process of the cloning technology actually working, SO this why the Sith Lords are ordered to pursue her and bring her back.

In my re-write so far, there are two Sith Lords, Darth Cise and Darth Maul. Maul is more collected, cool, and focused while Cise is a bit more obsessive and eager for revenge. He just wants to kill Jedi.

Also, the Skywalkers were a family of Jedi (none of this Jedi can't have family BS. Lucas had families of Jedi in his early drafts, so I think that should stay) who had defeated the Sith, so the Sith have it in for them specifically.

When Obi-Wan gets to Tatooine he finds Anakin (going by the name of Anakin Lars) living with his Mother, father, and brother Owen. Anakin's Jedi abilities unnerve them, but they don't think he should rush off to be a Jedi. Shmi's grandfather told her stories of their family past, but Cliegg forbid Shmi to ever tell the boy about his legendary lineage. Anakin is 16 to 17.

He's a mechanic for Watto and he does race pods, but this is only a brief, introductory scene. He's also on occassion, sneaked aboard frieghter ships, passing himself off as crew, even piloting the frieghters to close by planets, only to be found out and returned to Tatooine.


Obi-Wan is older, more like 25-30. Qui-Gon is older yet, closer to Ben's age in ANH, 60-70. His days as a Jedi Knight are winding down. This is going to be his last mission. I would also make him an addict of Spice (as spice enhances one's connection to the Force, but it gradually dims a person's natural ability to connect, making them more and more dependent upon the Spice). Obi-Wan knows this and objects to Qui-Gon's use of it. Qui-Gon is a bit jaded if not right-down lax about his Jedi duties.

In the beginning, Bail Organa is captured by the Trade Federation/Mandalores as he tries to escape Alderaan to seek help from Coruscant. The Jedi Knights are dispatched to figure out why no communication is coming from Alderaan when it should only be a simple trade dispute. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan free Bail Organa, make a daring escape from the ship to the planet below. They encounter Jar Jar, but he's a more Chewbacca-like character, big, strong, capable, not annoying. He's just as good as the Jedi at taking out the battledroids.

Bail objects to the Gungan's aid as most Alderaan's see them as being vermins living in the swamps, a second-rate citizen, raiding the energy globes (which the Gungans actually mined for the Alderaans at one time). They're racists/specists. He especially objects to being left in their "protective custody" when Obi-Wan goes to Theed to seek transport; but this is Obi-Wan's trick to force the two species to work together, settle their differences.

Taking Jar Jar in exchange (remember, he's a valuable member of Gungan society), Jar Jar who drives the sub, takes them to Theed. They rescue the Queen, figure out that they are stealing clone technology, and they need to get the Queen safely to Coruscant (mainly because Bail requested that they do so).

They escape, but are damaged, land on Tatooine, sensing Anakin's presence. Qui-Gon is left behind to guard the ship and the Queen while Obi-Wan (only with Jar Jar and R2, no Padme) goes into town to find parts and a mechanic. While they search from dealer to dealer, the Sith are sent in to find the missing Queen. They use the Force to focus on the presence of the Jedi Knights.

Finally, Obi-Wan finds Watto who has a mechanic (Anakin) who could fix the ship, but he's "indisposed" at the moment. Cut to Anakin in the last lap of the pod race, beats (or inadvertently kills) Sebulba. (The whole pod race scene is really short, only showing Anakin being a thrill-seeker and a gambler). Anakin walks awaly with his winnings.

***Oh yeah, Shmi and Anakin are NOT slaves!! They work for Watto. Cliegg is a down-and-out freighter pilot who just wants to farm on his own, but doesn't have enough money to buy his own property****

Meanwhile, a sandstorm has picked up. Shmi notices Obi-Wan's lightsaber, the stories her grandfather told her come back to her, and she offers shelter to the heroes while they wait for Anakin to return from the races.

At the same time, the Maul and Cise land. In the midst of the storm, Cise and Maul attack the ship. Cise battles Qui-Gon, sending him over a cliff side in their saber-duel, while Maul grabs the Queen. Qui-Gon is just too old to handle the young Sith. The Queen is actually a handmaiden in disguise but the real Queen, Padme, runs out into the storm to find Obi-Wan.

Padme stumbles the through the storm, reminiscent of Luke when he was stumbling through the snowstorm on Hoth; falling over drifts and losing her way in the blowing clouds of sand. She is sure to die when Anakin, returning from the races, finds her and takes her back to the hovel where she reunites with Obi-Wan.

Anakin is slightly jealous, but he's more intrigued by Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan realizes that Shmi and Anakin are bloodlines of Skywalker. Soon, he's telling Anakin about the adventures of the early Skywalkers and how they defeated the Sith. He also tells Anakin that there is a prophecy, that if the Sith are to return, so will the Skywalkers to oppose them. Anakin is enthused and wants to join Obi-Wan, to become a Jedi. Cliegg doesn't like the idea, and neither does Owen. But, Shmi finally convinces Cliegg to let Anakin go. Anakin gives his winnings to Cliegg so he can buy the farm he wants.

Anakin fixes the ship and they go to Coruscant. The Jedi Council is led by Mace Windu, not Yoda. Yoda is a teacher, a philosopher who is separate from the counsel. He does not concern himself with such things, but the Counsel goes to him when something comes up in which they need advice. The possibility that Anakin is the prophecized Skywalker is such a situation, and Anakin is brought before Yoda. Yoda belittles Anakin, saying he's too old to train, etc. Anakin is refused training. Obi-Wan takes it upon himself to train him.

That's all I have so far. The rest needs some more work.

Apart from qui gon being a stoner, the queen being a clone and anakin not being a slave, I think that's the best damn re-write I've ever read. Would be perfect for the start of the star wars prequel trilogy. I like how you have more involvment of the sith and the rift between the gungans and the people of alderaan more explained and obi wan being the central character with more depth eg. purposefully trying to unite the people of alderaan. Also mentioning clone technology means episode II will involve more of the clone wars without any of that jango/boba fett crap. You could have darth cise being killed by qui gon in the first lightsabre duel on tatooine to make the final lightsabre battle a bit more emotionally intense with maul getting revenge on obi wan and qui gon for the death of his apprentise.

[Commoner]

Apart from qui gon being a stoner

Well, I guess I was trying to deal with what Spice was, what was the point of it. I know Lucas ripped the idea off from Dune, so I figure that's what it'd be used for, for non-sensitive Force-users to 'get in touch' with the Force. However, I might be dropping this idea, and dealing with Kenobi's "pupils" one of them being named "Darth Vader," and then he picks up Anakin as a student, too, making Darth Vader somewhat jealous of this new acquisition.

the queen being a clone

I couldn't think of a better way for the bad guys to go after her. The 'she must sign the treaty' storyline sucks sucks sucks....

and anakin not being a slave

I've never liked the idea of Anakin being a slave. It complicates too much.

I think that's the best damn re-write I've ever read.

Thank you.

Would be perfect for the start of the star wars prequel trilogy. I like how you have more involvment of the sith and the rift between the gungans and the people of alderaan more explained and obi wan being the central character with more depth eg. purposefully trying to unite the people of alderaan.

Also mentioning clone technology means episode II will involve more of the clone wars without any of that jango/boba fett crap.

Agreed. I always figured Boba was just one of the last Clone Troopers. I could see armies of him on the march. Real enemies to battle rather than the stupid robots.

You could have darth cise being killed by qui gon in the first lightsabre duel on tatooine to make the final lightsabre battle a bit more emotionally intense with maul getting revenge on obi wan and qui gon for the death of his apprentise.

Agreed. Good idea.

[civilian_number_two]

I have to agree with Barend on the prophecy business.

Prophecies are boring. They are weak excuses for storytellers to work in foreshadowing. Cleverly handled, they can be very nice, but let's be honest: when have they ever been cleverly handled? not very damn often, that's when.

In THE MATRIX, prophecy was overdone but at least relevant. Neo wasn't an anomaly that weakened the machines' position; he was an advertised upgrade to the program. In the STAR WARS prequels, the idea of prophecy is tacked on to give the thing unnecessary pseudo-religious bufoonery. Reminds me of a LORD OF THE FLIES sequel I wrote in high school, which I've referred to somewhere else in these forums. Suffice to say, it was intentionally pretentious and total bullshit, and everyone I showed it to thught it was completely serious. They were all idiots. A couple of them are dead. Some others survived to breed.

------


Prophecies in the real world consist of a thing happening and then after the fact, when people would write about it, they would find or invent an obscure passage that foretold the event. Usually this was done when an awful thing happened, to bolster faith during a bad time. As often as not, they would be accompanied by a strong message of hope, and some additional promised event that would then of course never happen. Prophecies in real human history are therefore totally boring and commonplace and perfectly pointless. In fiction they should be avoided in the same way all beginning screenwriters are reminded to avoid the following common pitfalls:

a. stories about people making a movie.
b. road trips.
c. frat parties.
d. people waking up from dreams.
e. references to THE WIZARD OF OZ.

... my, how I prattle on.