God Any christians on the forums?
#572
Posted 15 September 2005 - 07:27 PM
He builds, he creates, he envisions, he makes plans and he protects.
All his abilities are as limited, and as human, as yours and mine. Thats naturally the result of "Him" being invented by human minds.
If God did exist, why would he give a shit if we worshipped him or not? Does he have an ego? He probably cries too, right?
#573
Posted 15 September 2005 - 10:00 PM
Took me a bit, but here is my rebuttal.
Let's say for the sake of discussion that you created a sentient being. How about, for simplicity, a clone of yourself. By some turn of events it commits various evil acts such as murder, rape, torture, etc. Your clone was created of you and by you. It also happens to be a living, breathing, thinking, Being. Are you the cause of the evil that has taken place, or did your clone commit those acts out of its own volition? There exists a thing known as personal responsibility. You may have been part of the reason, but you are not the reason these crimes were committed. Here is another example: What if you are a scientist working with hazardous materials in a lab. You have taken all of the proper precautions, including putting a sign on the door that says Do Not Enter. Earlier that day you had talked to one of your colleges about your work. He comes to the door, reads the sign, and enters anyways, and an accident happens. Is it your fault that your collogue was being a stupid prat? Obviously he did not follow what should have been done, but the accident occured in an area that at the time was your responsibility to maintain.
To finish my statement, I say again that the Devil is the embodiment of evil, not the source of it. Just as God is not the source of good, but the embodiment of it. That is why good actions can have evil outcomes, and evil actions can have good outcomes. It also explains why good and evil are subjective and that different actions can various consequences depending upon the situation.
I hope you have read this entire post and understand the meaning of what I have put down.
"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto
Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
#574
Posted 16 September 2005 - 11:59 AM
So, I know you're not a biblical literalist. If god possesses none of the three O's, then he's just like a regular guy with a lot of power and time on his hands. Assuming I had the power, time, and knowledge of genetics to create a clone, and my clone went bad, then no, it wouldn't be my fault because I couldn't have foreseen the damage my clone would do. If the same was true for God, if god didn't have the foresight to know that Satan was evil, and if he didn't have the power to turn back time and erase the damage that Satan had done, then what makes him any better than us? Why should I worship God if the only thing that makes him better than me is that he is in control of earth? If any intelligent, compassionate, hard-working person was in god's shoes, they could probably do just as good a job as god is doing now.
#575
Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:27 PM
"what interests me is if god had any choice in creating the universe."
the point is, what is god's motivation in all this. ive said earlier that i have no clue of how to answer that. its like when you say 'why, this?' 'because'. 'because why?' and so on. it just cant be answered at present, by anyone.
but ask yourself, why in america, and many other countries, is the idea of the pantheon of anthropomorphic dieties all but extinct?
becuase, as plato, aristotle, descarte and kant, among others, pointed out, there is no sense in a god that is not omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent. i, for one, am tired of hearing god refered to as existant, but limited. thats just christian apologetics-an excuse. ill tell you though, that god is 'limited' in that he has set for himself (pardon my masculine pronouns) rules of operating. god wont break his own rules; without rules there could be no creation. only the void mentioned before creation. symantically put, the only thing god cant do is nothing-therefore, there is nothing god cannot do.
so why did god decide on the rules that we know of? i havent a clue. all i know is that the rules have never been broken. if god creates lucifer, and lucifer makes himself evil, god is not responsible for that evil, even if he knew it would happen. if god interfered with the choices beings make, then there would be no choice at all; only clockwork oranges. why would god want beings that can make choices? i dont know. but im working on it...im out of time on my lunch break, but i have plenty more to say.
This post has been edited by xenduck: 16 September 2005 - 12:29 PM
#576
Posted 16 September 2005 - 02:33 PM
#578
Posted 16 September 2005 - 09:33 PM
#579
Posted 17 September 2005 - 03:09 AM
This post has been edited by Jordan: 17 September 2005 - 03:10 AM
#580
Posted 19 September 2005 - 07:24 PM
not really... i would have programmed it to be evil...
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#581
Posted 19 September 2005 - 07:27 PM
This post has been edited by Zatoichi: 19 September 2005 - 07:35 PM
"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto
Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
#583
Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:02 PM
i was just saying i'm evil.
but for even thinking i suck, my clone may ruin YOU!
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#585
Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:06 AM
"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto
Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>