Storm has to counter more reasons... reason 21-30
#17
Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:04 PM
Friendship itself is not necessarily attachment. It depends on your state of mind.
The Jedi council tries to prevent attachment in all of its members. This is one of the reasons why the Jedi originally do not want to train Anakin -- he's too old and has forged too strong a bond with others outside the order (his mother and his childhood crush). This attachment leads to fear of loss and fear of loss leads to...well, you know the movie.
The Jedi permit Anakin to join the council in order to have him spy on Palpatine. That's why they tolerate his close ties to the Chancellor. They think it will work out in their best interest. They don't know Palps is a Sith Lord, they just think he might be a corrupt politician.
As far as this "code" thing goes: Anakin feels that spying on Palpatine would be an act of treason against the government, subverting the structure upon which the Jedi Order is based. The Jedi probably do swear to protect the Republic.
The point of "it's against the Jedi Code" is that Anakin feels he's being asked to do an un-Jedi thing. Maybe the point here is that Anakin misunderstands the Jedi code and thinks that allegiance to a government is more important than serenity and non-attachment. He thinks that loyalty means obeying a leader no matter what, when in fact loyalty includes having the courage to question decisions made by a leader.
#18
Posted 21 June 2005 - 06:05 PM
The Jedi council tries to prevent attachment in all of its members. This is one of the reasons why the Jedi originally do not want to train Anakin -- he's too old and has forged too strong a bond with others outside the order (his mother and his childhood crush). This attachment leads to fear of loss and fear of loss leads to...well, you know the movie.
The Jedi permit Anakin to join the council in order to have him spy on Palpatine. That's why they tolerate his close ties to the Chancellor. They think it will work out in their best interest. They don't know Palps is a Sith Lord, they just think he might be a corrupt politician.
As far as this "code" thing goes: Anakin feels that spying on Palpatine would be an act of treason against the government, subverting the structure upon which the Jedi Order is based. The Jedi probably do swear to protect the Republic.
The point of "it's against the Jedi Code" is that Anakin feels he's being asked to do an un-Jedi thing. Maybe the point here is that Anakin misunderstands the Jedi code and thinks that allegiance to a government is more important than serenity and non-attachment. He thinks that loyalty means obeying a leader no matter what, when in fact loyalty includes having the courage to question decisions made by a leader.
Well I think it's stupid that they have Anakin hang out with Palpatine so much, even though he's always been a headcase and makes all the jedi people nervous.
#19
Posted 21 June 2005 - 07:08 PM
I tend to side with Storm's counters more than Chefelf's reasons since many of thme are notpicky, but even your Storm cannot defend that balconey scene. I saw the film 3 times and each time I grimaced worse than before with uncomfortableness.
#21
Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:15 PM
Okay, I read Chef's thoughts for the week and found them to be tremendously predicatable and again dull. The problem is I can't really argue with what he says because some of his points are so insignificant. But here goes anyways.....
you've already made this argument twice before, which by your own standard makes you even on the multiple R2D2 attack...
but anyway...
21. Wind?
It's "strange" that I missed this on the balcony scene all four times as well as the wind issue in AOTC while Anakin and Obi-Wan are in the open speeder. The wind problem in AOTC is justifiable, since they are actually moving. In ROTS, Padme and Anakin are not moving at all.
Now I am aware that wind speed is greater at higher altitudes, as anyone can observe here on Earth. However, Star Wars is based a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. There are thousands of planets. There is nothing to say that all the physical laws need to be constant on every planet in the galaxy. For all we know, the wind speed could be constant at any height on Coruscant. If it's a calm or windy day, it doesn't matter what altitude you are standing.
Undoubtedly Chef would expect the "wind" to be much greater standing 100 meters above the surface of the moon compared to standing directly on the surface.
paragraph1: wind doesn't require you to move to affect you.
paragraph2: ignoring earth's physics, we have the mace -v- palpy fight to consider. He smashes the window on the same planet, in a high building, and the wind comes in like they're out at sea... of course the second mace flies out the window, he seems to take the wind with him... so maybe on the planet croissant the wind just follows select individuals around... that's other planet's physics for you i guess
paragraph3: the moon doesn't really have an atmosphere, and isn't a planet... now you're just being silly and taking all this suprisingly personal...
22. Romance
I'll be the first to admit I think the balcony scene is totally unnecessary in ROTS. However, is it unrealistic? I don't think so. I beg you to eavesdrop on a young couple flirting with each other. I think you will find some totally lame compliments exchanged between the two. In fact, you'll probably laugh out loud as to how corny it is. If anything, it's realistic. At least I got the impression the two did love each other. That is a significant improvement over AOTC.
I must congratulate Chef on his ability to realize that people would hate this scene and then make himself seem like a god by drilling the point to death. I can imagine that Chef and Jaques had the following conversation.
CHEF: Jaques, things are not going so well. I'm under a lot of pressure from the people in my forum to release some really clever and hilarious points. This is the most opposition I have ever received to my points, and I've only released 20 of them.
JACQUES: Well, your points really do seem forced. I mean come on, "The Chancellor's Signal", "PAD-A-MAY", Four points on R2-D2 when one point would have sufficed.
CHEF: Yeah, I know. What should I do? I need to gain their approval back.
JACQUES: How about you go insanely overboard on nitpicking a part of the movie you know everyone must have either hated or disliked.
CHEF: Well, it seemed that everyone hated the romance between Padme and Anakin in AOTC....so people are guaranteed to dislike any romantic scenes involving the two. Okay! I'll go absolutely overboard in nitpicking the scene on the balcony. Any other recommendations?
JACQUES: George Lucas tends to use a lot of CGI to distract the viewers from his horrible writing. So why don't you add some pictures to distract the reader from how forced and dull your points are?
CHEF: Okay, why don't I show a step by step human reaction to the lines said in that scene. Almost anyone would cringe at what they say, even a BABY!
JACQUES: Wooooeeeeee! You the man, Chef!
again, this is a rather personal sledging... you almost seem suprised to find nitpicks in a list entitled "reasons to hate..."
the simple fact of the matter is that i have been young and in love and around others who were young and in love who felt no shame in displaying their chronic illness we call stand-up-pillow-talk in front of me...
i've heard some cutesy non-sensicle wuvy duvy bullshit bullshit in my time, but that takes the cake!!!
it's starts off corny then works it's way into WTF territory...
it was a boring thing to do, then it it became sickening, then it made no sense at all... i started to wonder if they filmed this scene in the same room, and if they had been given the same script...
but you're a brave man to defend the scene, i must say...
and i'll give you some respect, but for your own saftey, don't defend it in public...
23. Padme's Big Pregnant Belly
The two hadn't seen each other in nearly a year, from what I understand. I'm pretty sure Anakin was so happy to see her that he didn't even pay attention to Padme's physical attributes while hugging her. I'm certain an emotional "high" can distract you from paying complete attention to the physical world. I also seem to recall that Anakin is consistently looking Padme in the eyes while they first see each other. And even if he did notice, I doubt he would start hugging her and then throw Padme off after he noticed that her stomach was big. It was clear that Padme had some important news to tell Anakin, and Anakin was patient enough to let her explain without making assumptions.
i can't imagine you typing that with a serious look on your face...
he seems totally shocked that she's pregnant, disturbed, then artificially happy...
"anikan, a wonderful thing has happened" doesn't exactly strike me a nabooian for "remember that rubber that broke..." or "remember that day i forgot to take the pill and thought taking two the next day would fix it..."
your having unprotected sex with a girl, and after a not seeing her for a few months she shows up with her belly sticking out, (not accompanied a fat ass double chin and chocolate smeared on her face) what's the first thing that comes naturally... it didn't look like a beer gut to me...
him not saying anything was fair enough, he is an idiot, but the way he reacted...
ouch...
24. Padme Dying
Anakin was already visibly upset by the nightmare and Padme has seen before how those nightmares can effect him. Even if she was creeped out, she can't just say "Oh my God, I'm dead for sure." and then start crying. It wouldn't help the situation at all. In fact, in would make Anakin feel substantially worse. By biting the bullet and hiding her fear (at this specific time anyways), she is acting as a compassionate and supporting spouse.
so she's so strong willed a character that she doesn't even flinch when a jedi with a well documented ability to forsee the future tells her he's forseen her death, but she looses the will to live when he dumps her and chhoses to die despite her impending children...
mmm, some strong points being defended there...
25. Yoda's Shoddy Closet Philosophy
Have you ever heard of the concept of "tough love". It may seem mean what Yoda said, but ultimately it is true. The more you mourn for or miss a person, the more you are holding yourself back. Rather than moving ahead into the future, you would spend your time dwelling in the past. You can't change things that have already occured.
no yoda is mean....
he always sends the people closest to anikan to fight him
yoda seemed quite unhelpfull, he said he foressaw the death of someone close...
for a guy who would later say, 'always uncertain the future is' he's certainly quite the nihlist there...
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#23
Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:00 PM
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#24
Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:56 AM
Now I am aware that wind speed is greater at higher altitudes, as anyone can observe here on Earth. However, Star Wars is based a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. There are thousands of planets. There is nothing to say that all the physical laws need to be constant on every planet in the galaxy. For all we know, the wind speed could be constant at any height on Coruscant. If it's a calm or windy day, it doesn't matter what altitude you are standing.
Undoubtedly Chef would expect the "wind" to be much greater standing 100 meters above the surface of the moon compared to standing directly on the surface.
While I agree that different planets have different wheather and environments (Saturn has winds that are as strong as 1,500 miles per hour!) But the whole idea of having absolutely NO wind at all can be difficult to believe. Not just in the fact that they're so high up (and there comes the issue of temperature) but there are other things that need to be brought into question.
I can see that maybe the balconey was 'shielded' with some kind of force field that would prevent the wind from blowing around, but remember the chase scene in AOTC? They went around driving in a high speed speeder over the city with menuverse that might cause you to black/red out due to the G-forces playing on your body, and in all the scene we saw no wind at all (or any other law of physics really being applied). Not to mention having no seatbelts, either!
I really can't comment on this because I've never been in love before or had a romantic relationship. But I think I'll go with Barend on this.
Lame, lame, and lame some more! Sorry for being so rude, but there's no other way to put it. A woman that's apparently pregnant for seven months would stick out like a sore thumb and I'd be able to recognize that at a glance even several hundred meters away. No amount of emotion could have hidden that fact from me or anyone else, it's simply unbelievable.
Again, what Barend said.
You don't have to go in several dits of depression over your death to mourn them. Neither do you have to really think that life is utterly meaningless without those people. People who influenced you and did a world of good should be remebered and revered, and not forgotten and tossed away like yesterday's rubbish. Dwelling in the past is wrong (although I do it at times), but remembering the past, it's memories, and what is important is vital to moving forward at times. Never forget the mistakes of the past, or you will be doomed to repeat them. Never forget the people of the past, because what they did and said can still have a meaning and effect today.
Keep that in mind... cause it applies far beyond Star Wars or any other movie!
#25
Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:29 AM
Besides, wouldn't they take into consideration the fact Anakin is a special case since he wasn't trained from birth. By the age of eight Im pretty sure he developed some emotions, including sadness, which would never leave him no matter how hard the Jedi tried to brainwash him
#27
Posted 22 June 2005 - 04:07 PM
But this still doesn't begin to explain how Anakin or any other non-blind/retarded person could not tell she was preggers--I hadn't seen the ho since she was sporting a pink wing and thong, and I could immediately tell that she had packed on some lbs. ... or kilos, or whatever silly unit of measurement they use for weight in that galaxy.
#28
Posted 24 June 2005 - 07:48 AM
Yoda actually tells Anakin that there shouldn't even be a mourning period when someone dies. You shouldn't even miss this person when they're gone. It becomes quite clear that Yoda is not just some wise sage of the Jedi order, he is just a mean guy.
Have you ever heard of the concept of "tough love". It may seem mean what Yoda said, but ultimately it is true. The more you mourn for or miss a person, the more you are holding yourself back. Rather than moving ahead into the future, you would spend your time dwelling in the past. You can't change things that have already occured.
TOUGH LOVE? Okay well this must mean that when Obi-Wan is hanging of that lava pit and refuses to kill him, he's just doing what you say above. Will those people who keep bitching and moaning about how you have lost all respect for Obi-Wan and how he's not a real Jedi, now just shut the f**k up? If it's good enough for Storm, it's good enough for me.
#29
Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:12 AM
While Luke did mourn Ben, he had only known him for what?, less than 24 hours. No matter how funky Ben was, he seemed more cut up about this than for the Aunt and Uncle who had raised him from birth and been brutally burned by Imperial Stormtroopers.
The loss of his step parents had less of an effect on him than Anakin losing a mother he hadn't seen since he was 7. Maybe that is why Luke could resist the turn to the dark side, perhaps Yoda was right. Or perhaps Lucas can't write a good script. Hmm, meditate on this, i will.
#30
Posted 24 June 2005 - 05:43 PM