Chefelf.com Night Life: Which moments in ROTS did work for you? - Chefelf.com Night Life

I'd say a few hours is too short.

You're also the guy who said that Luke was on Dagobah for a long period of time, judging by the apparent time spent in the MF'n Asteroid storm/Bespin travels.

Where did I say that?

I misread your training information. My mistake.

While I'm upfront about being wrong, I thought the PT trailers were indicative of good films to come.

oh dear...

it's not 24. THIS IS NOT REAL TIME.

the millenium falcon would have taken ages to get to bespin, THEY HAD NO HYPERDRIVE.
it wasn't 4 miles away, given the distance between systems it could have been any amount of time...

but not 20 minutes.

again, I-t i-s n-o-t r-e-a-l-t-i-m-e

they don't show anyone going to bathroom, but it would have happened.
LOTR went for 11hrs and 30 minutes but it covers over a year (in fact if you include the prologue it covers over a thousand)

movies/stories show highlights from the passage of time, in ROTJ luke didn't telport into his x-winf in space from tatooine, he would have walked to it.

bloody hell, next i'll be explaining that they were all actors playing the characters.



yeah cause people who drive a ford can never set foot in an audi.



like 18 year old australian Casey Stoner who just went from the 250cc motorbikes and came second in his second international 1000cc motor GP race, and held first for quite a portion of the race. infront of Valentino Rossi, Hayden, Helias, and other podium favorites.



what? 'the force will always be with you' ...?



as fast as non government issue one man ships go.



just like beggars canyon back home.



not well enough to fight ewoks, shoot non stationary people, etc.



How many X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings did the Rebellion Launch 'under the range of the cannons' and in to the narrow channels in which, if you know anything, about any kind of combat, makes it quite hard to gang up on people in.



screene time or real time

it doen't matter... everyone was dying. and it wasn't like he was the only one to leave....



LOGIC?!? what do you know about logic?

so everyone who died first in WW2 were all the guys who hadn't fought in WW1?

man, that's superlame, that's so lame that a blind, deaf, mute, paralized castrated retard in a wheel chair would pity it.

and he has no face.

or genitalia

1. "I've heard you've become quite a pilot yourself".
This is a totally meaningless comment. Where is the proof? There is nothing displayed on screen by this point to demonstrate that Luke is a good pilot. We saw him drive a landspeeder. I'm about as equally impressed by Luke's ability to drive a landspeeder as Anakin's ability to pilot the podracer. Oh, and by the way, this is the same Obi-Wan who claims that "your father was already a good pilot when I first met him".

2. "he makes a comparison to his experience flying his T-16 and shooting moving"
First of all, it is never clearly explained what the hell a T-16 is. The only way you could know this is by looking into some Star Wars database or reading EU. Apparently, Luke plays with a toy model of the ship. Speaking of which, why the hell is there a toy model of that ship? Did Watto's grandson open up a toy store in Mos Eisley and make a killing off the sales of T-16 models? Also, Luke is an adult. Why is he playing with toys? This just leads me to believe that Luke was so bored on the farm that he pretended in his imagination he was a pilot of that ship, yet never actually flew the thing.

Secondly, what are the functions of a T-16? There is no way in hell it is similar to an X-Wing. If anything, that ship was used ONLY to dust crops. I highly doubt Owen Lars would invest in a ship that would have weapons on it. Also, we clearly see the entire farm and I never saw this "T-16". Oh, perhaps they stored it by using a shrink gun. By golly, it was the actual ship Luke was playing with not a model!

Furthermore, there is a substantial difference from "shooting moving targets" (which possess no danger whatsoever to Luke flying in the T-16) above a DESERT to piloting a ship in SPACE with 30 tie-fighters and zounds of turbo cannons firing at you. The physics in space are slightly different than the physics on a planet.

I don't know how you can buy all those BS comments from other characters and from Luke himself (who is clearly an immature, overconfident idiot) that Luke is already a great pilot with no proof onscreen. Presumably you have a problem with the scene in AOTC where Palpatine and Anakin talk and Anakin mentions Palpatine's guidance. A lot of people didn't buy it because we never saw the relationship develop on screen. I don't know how you can possibly buy into Luke already being a great pilot and not accepting that Palpatine looked out for and guided Anakin since his arrival on Coruscant.

Just accept that it isn't realistic!

This post has been edited by Storm: 10 May 2006 - 10:22 PM

I can’t be bothered to quote all that stuff Barand but again you’re just covering up for the OT and yet again refusing to do the same for the PT.

You make a wild list of assumptions comparing cars of Earth to alien technology that doesn’t exist. what are you basing those assumptions on? What exactly is a T-16 again?

Your assumptions, if you were defending the PT, would have been called "excuses".

The fact is that we never even see Luke step foot in a ship of any kind, let alone an X-wing, but a teenager who has never even sat on one before can destroy the galaxy spanning Empires most powerful weapon! You’re telling me a few lines of dialogue covers that crap up?

Are you suggesting that anyone can just leap in one, know immediatly how to operate one, and then take on the Empire?

Well, no, apparently not, because all of his highly trained pals die while the UNTRAINED TEENAGER who had sat in the thing for the first time 20 minutes prior to the battle makes it through.

Yes, that is illogical.

Yes, that is flimsy scriptwriting.

Do we buy it though? Yes, because you go to an action flick like SW expecting that kind of crap.
I mean, he piloted down Beggars Canyon as fast as in the trench run, while being shot at by…(Oh wait! The turbo lasers can’t destroy small ships! How convenient for Lucas) highly trained (one can assume) Stormtroopers in Tie Fighters (which should have come out in the hundreds and wiped them all out in minutes, again another convinience for Lucas), in another.

You say they can’t hit anything, great. That’s exactly the same illogical bollocks Lucas pulled out for the convenience of the story that you’ve come down on time and again with the PT.

Yet here, it goes mysteriously unscathed.



Because a ship with no lightspeed capabilities can travel the distance between planets at all? Even traveling at top speed, how long do you think it would take? Long enough for them to show signs of physical aging, I know that.
That ESB silliness aside, the passage of time like you’re indicating never comes across on screen. Intercutting two stories places both stories in the same time frame. Ignoring the no lightspeed thing (another turn your brain of in a SW film moment) it looks like the action took place over a matter of hours. If you want to show the audience that it takes place over a period of months, you’ve got to indicate that passage of time to the audience. ESB never makes any attempt to do that.

meaningless comment? it directly adresses the argument at hand. but suddenly when it supports an argument your against, it suddenly becomes 'meaningless' ?

you're talking to someone in the legal industry, buddy. you better work harder on your "argument's" if you wish to contend here.

and let's not drag the PT into this at this point. in no way does the PT set standard for a pre-existing film. Half our major complaints is that the PT is inconsistant. and here you are defending so much that you take the side of an inconsistancy that would have one of the characters suddenly a compulsive liar, becuase that's easier for you to ingest than accept that mistakes were made.

Anikan WAS a good pilot, the PT didn't reflect this because it's inconsistant and poorly researched.

and what proof do you want...

was luke suppose to say: "Yes, infact here's my diploma from the conservatorium of flight-finess and aerodynamic articulation. please also note, ben, these fine ribbons from the royal accadamy of show-jet school."

these are pre-film achievements. HE was already a good pilot, before the film started... it was nicley dropped in the film, where needed, not blurted out like 'you're breaking my heart' 'palpatine is my friend' 'you know the dark side, can i get his autograph'



----------------------
DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver
straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The
target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust
port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the
reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should
destroy the station.

(A murmer of disbelief runs through the room.)

DODONNA: Only a precise hit will set up a chain reaction. The shaft is
ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes.

(Luke is sitting next to Wedge Antilles, a hotshot pilot
about sixteen years old.)

WEDGE: That's impossible, even for a computer.

LUKE: It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my
T-sixteen back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.
---------------------

dialogue wise, that's all we really get. it would be strange, ney, insane and fairly unreasuring to make such a comparison to a young pilot if ther two scenarios bare little if any comparison.
one of things that made the OT so enjoyable and more realistic than most movies set in a socially-futuristic environment, was the way remarks like this were made, to brush it off like it was everyday stuff, rather than drawing attention to everything. HE casually leans to the other guy, and say's 'oh please, i do that crap all the time in my t-16."

you would have us believe that this statment would be like some kid in a WW2 movies assuring the new tank captain that the mission would be a cinch compared to his bicycle paper-rout.



ONLY to dust crops? how was he 'bullseyeing' wamp rats in a crop duster? it flew it had guns.

they live in a below ground facility. how did you see the entire farm?

they would have had it in a garage... and before you say it, yes a garage!!! did you see their bathroom? no? oh suddenly they didn't have a bathroom?

must everything be spoon fed to you? grow some fucking teeth boy.



there's also atmospheric inertia, sand stroms, wind factor vs lift, etc.

if ships could actually move like that in space, it would actually be easier to handle there.




why would i have a problem with characters staing a new character near the begening of the film is a good pilot?

i didn't see eric draven on stage in 'the crow' but i knew he was a musician.
i didn't see dekard arrest anyone in 'bladerunner' but i knew hw was a cop.
i didn't see the fucking jewlery store hiest in 'resevoir dog's' BUT I KNOW IT HAPPENED!!!

don't be a 'tardo.

the difference is "I've heard you've become quite a pilot yourself" was part of a conversation.

not outright stated practically too the audience, like "You're breaking my heart"



that's what makes it fantasy.

the PT is absurdity though.

Biggs backs up the notion that Luke is a good pilot, when he says to Red Leader "Luke is one of the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim". Enough evidence for me that he was qualified to pilot an X-Wing.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

covering up, by quoting the same film? the story starts after luke had become a pilot.
and it is refered to. how many lanugaes do you want that in?


I'd do it for the PT but it just doesn't provide adequate information within itself to make that an easy task.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

WILD? i compared one earth car to another, Luke compared one ship to another...
wild man, totally wild.

HE doesn't say what a T-16 is, but the fact that the young pilot next to him didn't need to be an explanation suggests that it wasn't a "wild" comparison, as he didn't jump up and down the way you are...

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

my "assumptions" were made on story based evidence that you convieniently choose to ignore.
if i could easily make such "assuptions for the PT instead of excuses, i wouldn't have a problem with the PT at all, now would I?

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

if the dialogue is this;

DODONNA: Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to
be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the
plans provided by Princess Leia has demonstrated a weakness in the
battle station.

(Artoo-Detoo stands next to a similar robot, makes beeping
sounds, and turns his head from right to left.)

DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver
straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The
target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust
port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the
reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should
destroy the station.


then, yes. it seems pretty solid.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

no someone who was already a pilot. i've heard luke had become quite a pilot, by that time, but detective storm is still looking for print documented evididence to collaborate this story.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

untrained? i'm starting to think you've never even watched star wars...

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

the cannons can't shoot in any direction that would cause damage to the facility to which they are attached. convinient? prudent.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

unlike ESB which i was tearing into with gerhard being the big hypocrit i am

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

it was a fast ship, a galaxy is a big place, there are places that are far away, and really far away...

hyperspace seem to be for the second variety of far away. considering the technology available, it seems silly that their max non-hyper speed was 88miles per hour.

jariten, on May 10 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

yes, it made the mistake of assuming smart people were watching who could figure it out for themselves... that people didn't need a time consuming montague avery time time moves forward faster than a picture...

oh this is too painful, please give up, i'm too right to throw the towel in.

Biggs backs up the notion that Luke is a good pilot, when he says to Red Leader "Luke is one of the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim". Enough evidence for me that he was qualified to pilot an X-Wing.

god that's typical...

i spend forever explaining things to people, and you just waltz on in here, and nail it like that.

thank you and damn you!

“Luke is the best pilot in the Outer Rim territories. So good, in fact, that he can sit in a military ship for the first time with no training and out man and out gun any other highly trained, highly qualified pilots you might care to pit against him, against the biggest weapon the Empire has and all the bad plot devices the script writer has to throw at him!”

That might have covered it. Perhaps its in an upcoming super special edition.
While I’m not denying that Lucas tried to soften the blow (he tried to do it in TPM too), nothing is going to be satisfactory unless he actually takes the time out in the film to do it.

I understand why he didn’t of course.

I just can’t believe that you can defend this and still call the PT “absurd”.

I think this was mentioned before, but I know you'd say "how can I believe that Ani and Palps had a relationship in AotC? I was mentioned, but never shown!" then come out with stuff like this.

Take this



Luke didn't compare a T whatever to an X-wing, he brought it up to show the guy sat next to him that it wasn't impossible for someone to hit something that small.



You'll have to run that by me again. Where in the dialogue does it explain how Luke can be a master in a ship hes never set foot in before?

and those turbo lasers....can't destroy ships? What are they for?
and they only launch...barely a dozen TIEs? Any half decent commander with his brain at least half out of his arse would have launched a hundred (out of the thousand).

The Empire fall prey to Lucas' deux ex machina.

Luke succeeds because the film says he has too. Lucas abandons logic and common sense to get there.

What actually would have happened is that Luke (assuming he was good enough with his bushwackers and T 16's to get out into space) would have died immediatly at the hands of the hundred TIE's the Empire would've sent out as he was still figuring out what button did what.

But who gives a shit? Its a stupid action film.

That line "they're too small for our turbolasers" (or whatever) makes me laugh everytime. I mean WTF?! And why build the DS with a big hole on the outside that leads directly too...

OK, we could go on.

Yeah, I guess that's the fun part for the geeks who know that the Incom T-16 is almost the same as an Incom X-Wing what with it being its predecessor and all.

I think that RotS has trumped that one now though.