[Deepsycher]

Recently the life of this Lithium battery seems to be getting shorter and discharging quicker. So every time I want to use it at crucial times the battery is flat. Even though I didnt use it as long the time befiore as if it had a mind of it's own. Then I have to run and get the mains adapter. Most annoying! especially when the sky doesn't wait for no one.



To buy another one of these Lithium Ion batteries from the manufacturer it will cost me approximately $80 and this is for 3.7 volts at 1090 mah.

I don't mind extra weight or size on the camera to accommodate efficiency but this is for the sake of slimness! It has become so frustrating I thought of a solution from scratch a year ago. It is a very simple solution but for someone with little soldering experience and a lifetime of cheap junk soldering irons it is not as simple. The time it takes these cheap ones to heat the nib to melt the solder, the gas runs out!




Above: I found a 70 watt soldering iron on a good promotional price with a see-through bottom bit so I know how much gas is in there with screw on heating, cutting and soldering pieces. Compared to the cheapos it melts the solder in seconds. This time I think I did a good job with little frustration.

The solution:



The camera input from the adapter is 4.8 volts. With the even voltage I can connect four AA size 1.2 volt rechargeable batteries together using a cartridge. So I brought some cartridges, 9 volt clips, and ring connectors.



(1) I cut off a reversible plug/cable adapter from a junk power supply with the right size connector and melted the end to prevent the polarity from being reversed.

(2) Below: Copper strands placed under the terminal ends to prevent the solder escaping underneath. Hidden inside from picture.



(3) Above: Due to small sized wiring (left black wire) already crimped to the connector and the risk of reversing polarity on accidental insert, I tore open the 9 volt connector, cut the thin wires off the terminals and put ring connectors round them (right) with thicker wiring crimped to the ends. To keep things in place I cover them in hot solder on the cartridge. (A damaged and burn't out one in the picture above.)


(4) Below: On the cartridge I covered layers of electrical tape around the terminals and metal bits for melting to prevent short circuit on metal objects and surfaces.



(5) There are long wide spaces on each side of the cartridge. I used small cable ties to tie the cartridge side and wires to the camera strap.



(6) I used a tamiya connector for the battery, inverse tamiya connector to the plug. and molex pins from a power connector because the pins from the original casing were too small to uncrimp the wires.



So far it is working perfectly other than a problem earlier when I moved the nine volt clip, it came out but it clicked back in place. Might need to be resoldered in place but no problems so far.

All this cost me pittance with four 2500 mah batteries compared to a fortune for something slim with half-a-slim capacity and slim lifetime.


I balanced the pack by attaching ties to on the other side.


The camera has been on for over three hours! Now they have gone flat. A quick battery empty message and turned off.

Despite the strange balancing with the extra weight that is not a problem compared to a loose a strap that gets in the way in windy conditions. All I need now is to find or make a box for wet or rainy conditions. I know that the exposed batteries may look ugly but this is an ultimate solution to the annoyance of the previous lifeless battery. With the effort and hours I put in today I am so pleased to have solved this annoyance! I expect there to be no more battery problems.

Now what do you think about the economics of that?

Does anybody here face the same problem with custom made Lithium camera batteries?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 02 February 2007 - 11:08 PM

[Deepsycher]

I might as well let this thread die: There is a problem with one of the contacts. Now it took me hours to plastically coat that contact. A break happens when one of the wires on the terminal is pushed up or down too far. I'll see how it goes and when the break gets worse obviously it might lead to me having to start all over again!

Like how I had to edit this thread for mistakes the same thing has happened when I thought I got it all perfect. All the effort I put into it and this is what I get because of one contact!

When I ever get down to sorting that out I am going to make sure of no breaks again before coating.

It seems I can't get anything right. Hours of solid work wasted. So disappointed!

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 03 February 2007 - 12:24 AM

[Slade]

Aww... The work isn't wasted. You've got some experience in working with those electrical components and practice attaching them and such besides. I think it's really cool the way you hooked everything together, even if something went wrong afterwards. Most of this electrical engineering stuff is foreign to me, but I can appreciate the overall design and effect.

I have two questions...

Have you checked the camera to see if it is what is sucking down the battery life, and not the battery's problem?

And have you tried an electric soldering iron? No need for gas, just an outlet nearby and patience to wait for it to warm up (which you already have from working with gas-powers soldering irons.)

[Spoon Poetic]

That's awesome that you know how to do all that stuff. I wish I could come up with my own solutions to technical problems, but I don't know enough.

[Deepsycher]

Slade (1) I know what you mean. An LCD remote control I brought second hand last year kept on draining the batteries within a week. Nope I haven't formally checked. I think the only way I can check that is to buy another Lithium 10b battery. The terminals are a far reach in the battery bay. The slim size of the battery bay can present a risk of inserting the wires the wrong way or short circuitng when taking them out. The internal contacts are flat inside so the wires are not going to hold. It is not easy to see inside and the voltage is 3.7 volts. But three hours running time from these AA batteries is long enough to convince me that it may not be the camera. I hope there isn't a fault like that. I have a similar problem with a laptop battery. Kept on running out quickly.

When I get more experience I am thinking about connecting one of those Lead Acid 12 volt 7 amp hour batteries to the output with a voltage regulator to step up the voltage to 15 volts.


(2) Electric Soldering Irons?

I used a really cheap horrible one someone brought me because I was small. The nib didn't melt the solder properly.

Then I used a really good blue one on an electronic soldering stating that heated the nib up in under a minute I think. I don't think I can afford a soldering station unless I intentionally have lots of soldering to do. That soldering station was the quickest thing to gas to what I have used. There is something that I am unsure to do with electric soldering irons. To melt insulting tape and plastic for coating wires.

As in the picture:



I think it is worthwhile the money I paid with the bits I got with it. Without that I wouldn't have thought of the idea of melting the tape so it wouldn't get sticky and fade of over time, assuming it wouldn't now. Also I have a build up of butane gas cans in the cupboard so it is not so expensive.


Spoon - When I was two years old the only thing interesting enough for me to play on was plugs and plug sockets. I remember that because the idle toys assumed for babies in front of me served little meaning or usage. I felt so offended that Christmas when I was just given a yellow toy duck that just floated on water whilst other people were given objects that I saw served useful interesting meaning. I remember the frustration and that very moment after opening. Maybe the experience caused me to come up with my own solutions.

To me the thought of this was very simple but doing it isn't.

Last of all I spent most of my sleep hours solving the problem:


The Culprit



I pulled everything apart and by using a test led my soldered contacts were solid. It was the contacts on the battery cartridge holder! They were loose and the pins were s;ightly bent. And the molex pins on the tamiya connector needed to be tightened again. I tightened the terminals on the new cartridge to prevent movement, I made sure the contacts fit in tight, soldered tape first over the exposed metal pieces, then got down to coating the terminals with even more tape. This time I wrapped the tape around tight and all the way rather than in little bits. It melted perfectly in place.



Doesn't look exactly same but the wires and terminals are more secure.

I let a bit of slack at the end where the tape is to help prevent movement or looseness if the wires are twisted or pulled in sharp directions.

Sorry I couldn't take a picture of how well I soldered the bare terminals behind the melted tape from last time. It was 4 am in the morning, the work and frustration left me no time to stop.

Now I am absolutely sure there are no problems with loose wires or bits.




Can't have any failures in this but I am satisfied now despite loosing sleep to correct the problem. The problem wasn't even mine. A lesson for me is to check the terminals of these battery cartridges next time. Later I might go over the terminals with another coat of heated eletrical tape to make it look smooth.



I improved the strap bit to secure the wires underneath and so that the cartridge doesn't move. The Tamiya connectors are in the same place as before with a bit of flexibility for the adapter wire to move when wearing the strap. Maybe the time I did it in and the improvements I made wasn't a waste of time after all.


Want to see mess?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 03 February 2007 - 12:50 PM

[Deepsycher]

I made some changes and this will be my final attempt. The appearance didn't look as good as the first and the strap kept on bending to the ties causing the battery cartridge to move.



I used plastic of a calculator case. Using a surgeon's scissors I cut an estimated size.




Because of the sharp edges, no sanding paper and despite my attempts in trying to heat the plastic edges to make it smooth I wrapped electrical tape round the edges and surfaces into three layers. I melted each strip individually.




It fits perfectly after cutting a bit off and tape melting the side again. I put in as many cable ties to fill the side to stop the cartridge from moving up and down. The wires I tucked and tied underneath for a soft surface and now it doesn't bend to a thin size.




Due to the scruffy look I melted another layer of tape to give the terminals and wires a smoother look. Now it looks way smoother than before.




I secured that tamiya connector and tucked its long wire in a free space underneath the plastic. So it does not become as irritating upon moving the strap.




I neatly put the cable ties in such a way so that they don't move as much or bend the strap or stab me in the neck. I left enough slack to prevent the plug from being pulled from all angles.




Perfectly balanced! by the support of the plastic and the cable tie on the other side. I left a little bit of cable tie hanging out incase it needs adjusting.

I still feel shaky and sometimes loose control in my hands after spending so long holding stuff in the cold to vent off the fumes from the tape and plastic without having anything to eat for most of the day.

I feel I made perfection today and now it looks perfect than ever before.
What do you think?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 04 February 2007 - 07:42 PM

[Heccubus]

I'm gonna go ahead and move this to the tech forum.

[Deepsycher]

What a blow to the thread.

Anyway 3 hours and 90 minutes is fantastic for it being on.
Going to compare the other battery. If the Lithium battery is to the full capacity then it should last an hour.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 04 February 2007 - 11:33 PM

[Spoon Poetic]

It's not an insult that it's been moved, Dee - it's about technical stuff, so Hecc thought it fit better in the Tech forum.

[Deepsycher]

To me it'll be convenient if there are sub forums for categories such as electronics for this one as the object here is directly the battery and not so much the camera. (Assuming I am not talking to a brick wall like some of my other or earlier threads here.)

As five posts away the plastic I put between the strap and battery cartridge feels a lot more solid, less bendy and perfectly balanced.

So lets see. I paid near to nothing for the cartridge, clips, and tape.



2500 milliamp ->1090 mah
In the price of a new Olympus Lithium 10b battery I can buy 4 packs of those Energizer batteries (16 total) which are over double the amounts of milliamp capacity. The only downside is the weight and maybe wet conditions but I'll either make a box or assemble an adjustable plastic coating found on round cell battery packs.



Two problems:

16 amp hour transformer. If it was a 32 amp transformer with slight modifications then it will solve two problems:

(1) In power mode 32 amp will be enough to work the last four bottom pits at 4 amps an hour.

(2) For C and D cells in power mode at 4 amps per pit 1 to 4: (16 amp hours exceeded and won't charge other batteries in slots 5 to 8 until the C and D cells have reached their capacity.)

Pleased about this storage collection and the charger. It has proven to be convenient rather than buying throw batteries from shops where they get away with not stating the capacity and possibly selling lower capacity batteries in 3 for 2 pack deals. One downside about these rechargeable rounds cells is that the voltage is only 1.2 volt which is 0.3 volts lower than the throw away alkaline cells.

There are ways to charge these throw away batteries. From chargers that charge them at a very slow rate but they loose a percentage of capacity each time they are recharged. Some manufacturers claim that they can be charged from 50 to 100 times or there is a rechargeable alkaline type which lasts the same. Maybe they are the same. I can see why they are good for devices such as remotes as they don't loose as much capacity in idle states for over long periods of time.

From what I read they loose one to five percent a year but that can vary on temperature levels and they loose less in cold storage.

I know that there are advantages for Lithium batteries such as higher capacity in smaller sizes but apparently I read that they shouldn't be discharged below 50% of their capacity. So it is possible that a percentage of the camera battery is reserved by protective circuitary inside it's casing. For devices with high drain I read they can last up to 50 cycles with higher risks of explosions from incorrect charging or accidents. The only advantages I see are the higher capacities probably within a short amount lifetime and a higher drain rate to NiMH batteries.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 05 February 2007 - 01:16 PM

[Deepsycher]

Well after many uses I am well contented with my design and appreciate the capacity of round cell batteries. Those custom Lithium Ion batteries are just inconvenient from my experience.

If I want to go bigger I can buy a D cell cartridge with 10,000 mah rechargeable batteries which I already have for my torch. I can store it in a bag, waist band, pocket or sholder strap.

2500 mah over 3 hours by the way stupid of me for misreading 90 seconds on the timer as minutes!

So 10000/2500=4*3= 12 hours.

I care more about battery life, features, quality than how small and pretty the camera looks.
If I saved up for it. This one I got is an Octopus C 770. I brought it for the 10x optical zoom. The night enhancements are amazing when it is on a tripod.

Now to the point who has problems with Lithium camera batteries?
Or am I talking to a brick wall.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 06 February 2007 - 09:57 PM

[Deepsycher]

Ha! I was speaking to someone who works in the industry.

He said what I did was good but the majority of people rather spend a huge amount on something small but unreliable in quantity and life. He mentioned that by attaching the batteries to a belt might attract people.

Then he said that not many people would want to pay a lot of money for a quality battery charger like the one featured in the posts above. Because they want the cheapest so they can just "plop" the batteries in and that's it.

"You might be interested in how many milliamps go in the batteries but they're not."
"And to be truthful I have never seen one of them before."

Me: "I like perfection and reliability."

That is why I oppose this place.

What he said explained a lot about the attitudes of people I face in the shops that I go into. With that aggressive attitude I feel:
Repeating myself: "We have the Mass Majority to serve so why should YOU! be any DIFFERENT?"
"The mass majority don't use 4300's"

If I was one of those typical people who go PLOP! and dont care and I went camping at night with a set of regular Alkaline batteries, what happens when those batteries start to run out in the middle of a field and I didn't bring any spares?

Me: I would check how much milliamps the bulb consumes in an hour and the quantity of the battery to make rough estimations.

Conclusion: The people I am thinking of don't mind paying expensive prices for trendy things that looks pretty. Thinking of now and not later, reliability is not an issue when you are surrounded by throw away items.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 05 March 2007 - 10:23 PM

[Deepsycher]

Ha! I got another camera battery unexpectedly but I didn't pay for it. It came free when they replaced the scratched display.



I don't think I'll be using it as I can't make rough estimations like the method on the first post of this thread as to when the batteries go flat. I don't trust Lithium batteries due to the dangers of accidental mistreatment. In hot places outside is my biggest worry.

So far using four rechargeable aa batteries in that carriage adapter has really helped my frustration compared these specific Lithium batteries for capturing pictures or filming at crucial moments.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 18 July 2007 - 08:20 PM

[Bond]

Well, that's great that you can do it yourself! I don't even know how to set the alarm on my clock!