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Star Wars Fan Convention (134 posts)
25-May 05
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User is offline Jul 07 2008 07:57 AM

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  1. In Topic: If You Had To Kill a Dictator...

    Posted 20 Aug 2007

    View Post Cobnat, on Aug 20 2007, 11:29 AM, said:

    The United States government, like every other government on the planet, is as left-wing or right-wing as its leader is. Currently there is a bible toting, alcoholic, arrogant and uncharismatic right-winger. Before him was a saxophone toting, womanizing, arrogant and charismatic left-winger. Thought regardless of wether the U.S government is left-wing or right-wing, to every person outside the United States and especially those people in the countries the United States has screwed up; the United States government will always be fascist and its people will always appear to be mindless sheeple… I don’t know where I was going with this…

    Neither do I, but that’s the point isn't it? I respond to a statement made by you, and you counter my rejoinder by taking it out of all context to what is being said. It appears to be a device, just so that you can rant on an on about the ever so corrupt United States Government.

    [/quote]Firstly, I never said communism was anti-Christian or vis versa. [/quote]

    I never said you did, all I have been trying to say here is that it is valid to juxtapose Che Guevara and Jesus Christ because although their causes were very different, both ended up dying for them.[/quote]

    [/quote] Secondly, since Christ did not write the bible and since it was written several generations after his death, I do not think it wise to take it all to heart. [/quote]

    Very convenient argument, but granted. However, I will certainly take to heart the bit about turning the other cheek. And yes I am joking.

    .[/quote]I didn’t know we were debating who was the bigger hero. I thought we were debating who made a bigger stand. [/quote]

    I was joking about the bigger hero remark. You know after you stated that Jesus lived in more dangerous times aka the bloodthirsty Roman protectorate of Judea versus the corrupt and lazy government of Fulgencio Batista observation.

    However, the bigger stand bit - please?! How can you even go there - both men died for what they believed in - how can you measure the bigger stand here? I fear that you are going to tell me though.
  2. In Topic: If You Had To Kill a Dictator...

    Posted 20 Aug 2007

    QUOTE (Cobnat @ Aug 18 2007, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Do you honestly believe that the left-wingers in the United States government have done anything to normalize relations with Cuba… or any other country the United States has tried to meddle in?
    Teachings of Christ? The teachings of Christ have been so distorted since his death I doubt that any Christian bible expresses the views of Christ at all.

    No, No, I don't believe that the left wingers in the United States government ..., why are you assuming here that I do? I talked about and compared the United States government to right-wing Christians, two entirely different bodies. I was not inferring therefore that left-wingers in the United Sates government have done anything to help Cuba. You are reading things here that I am not saying.

    How do you know if the teachings of Christ have been distorted since his death and the Bible therefore does not express his views? Were you alive then? Way to make a lucid point here. Alongside this, there are a lot of Socialists (i.e. members of The Labour Party) who are also Christians in Great Britain (where I live) who support the Cuban government and what they are trying to do - who should be telling them that they are not acting as Christians as you appear to depict them - you?

    Finally, you ask if I "can compare the corrupt and lazy government of Fulgencio Batista to the bloodthirsty Roman protectorate of Judea." Does that mean therefore that Jesus Christ is more of an hero than Che Guvera? Wow, who knew??!!
  3. In Topic: If You Had To Kill a Dictator...

    Posted 18 Aug 2007

    QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 18 2007, 04:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    My intent wasn't to put down Christ, and he did indeed set down ideals of social justice, etc, which motivated Catholics in Cuba to join the revolution. A Catholic priest once saved Fidel's life during the war for liberation, actually. So yes, Christ certainly did do good work on earth as well, but it was a different time. Would that have worked as well in Cuba? Probably not. Apples and oranges, like I said.

    No, Christ and Cuba are not apple and oranges because social injustice is social injustice, wherever and whenever it happens.

    You talk as if the time when Christ was "alive" was less intolerant/capitalistic/violent etc than in our present day world! His message of tolerance, love and understanding 2000 years ago is just as valid now, and yes would work well in Cuba: if the American Government and rightwing so-called practicing Catholics/Protestants would allow it to.

    Like Guevara, Christ took a stance and changed the status quo. So, yes, I believe that if Christ was alive here on earth today, his ideals of social justice etc, would work for Cuba - why else would Catholic priests get involved and stay involved in the revolution?
  4. In Topic: If You Had To Kill a Dictator...

    Posted 17 Aug 2007

    Interesting, because I agree with your sentiments regarding Che Guevara, although to my mind Fidel Castro should really get the praise for this.

    However, you couldn't be more wrong re your depiction of Jesus Christ. As far as I'm concerned he was the first Socialist (the European kind). For the time in which he lived, this guy was just as much a revolutionary as Guevara, the difference was that he didn't carry a gun. Christ did much more than save souls, although some may believe that's enough in of itself. He preached tolerance, understanding, loving each other etc, etc. This may not seem much nowadays, but remember it got him crucified. The Sermon on the Mount serves as a lesson to mankind in much the same manner as ensuring that people get fed, can read etc.

    Like Che Guevara, Christ was not afraid to die for what he believed in. Stop putting him down, just because some prick is using him to make an asinine point.

    QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Aug 17 2007, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    It's comparing apples and oranges really, and I'm not trying to put either on the other's level, since one of them helped a lot of people on earth to learn to read, gain medical care, have enough to eat, etc, and the other saved the souls of (depending on how nutty a sect you follow) billions of people or a few people who happen to burn down the right number of abortion clinics or Jews.
  5. In Topic: Vader in ep 3

    Posted 16 Aug 2007

    No, no, No!!

    I will never forget watching ESB at the cinema in the 80s when Vader told Luke that he was his father, and the subsequent frisson of shock and horror that went around the theatre.

    Trust me, Lucas trying to fix his fuckups regarding the prequels/original trilogy will never make up for the fact that kids new to Star Wars who watch the films in sequence, will never have the same experience.

    [Similarly, the new Emperor scene in ESB, which so confounded most of the people on these boards when it was first released in 2004, now seems like a stroke of genius post-2005: Vader is trying to cover up that he knows of the existence of his son! This, in light of the later scene in which Vader attempts to get Luke to join him, only reinforces that Vader has decided to start scheming against his master ever since he learned of his son. If you find it spoils a twist, so be it; I found it brilliant. biggrin.gif

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