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User is offline Nov 18 2007 11:30 PM
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  1. In Topic: "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"

    Posted 8 Apr 2007

    QUOTE (mireaux7 @ Apr 8 2007, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    what youre basically missing is that Anakin was initially lead unto Palpatine by his promise of preventing Padme's death. The sheer moment Anakin agreed to allow Palpatine's help, Anakin had pretty much let the guard down, and then began the gradual penetration of the dark side.

    Most of the words you hear from Anakin's/Vader's mouth, especially towards the end of ROTS arent really coming from Anakin/Vader, per se...but are really words that are spoken via a deep saturation of evil Sith influence into Anakin, thus changing him into Vader.

    think of it as manipulation in the darkest form, brain washing, if you will.

    if you befriend someone, they will believe you, as long as what you say seems to hold some sort of logic. when palpatine consistently conjured logical answers to many of anakin's suspicious questions, anakin began to slowly believe palpatine more and more. the more anakin believed and befriended palpatine...the easier it became for palpatine to lure anakin to the dark side

    i believe it was said best in ROTS, when Yoda says to Obi-Wan "gone is he, the boy Anakin, consumed by Vader" (something to that extent, not sure on what was said verbatim)

    basically, Yoda had already realized that Anakin was at the point of no return,.he had been totally brain-screwed by Palpatine,..so that many of the phrases that you hear anakin/vader recite at the end of the film..are somewhat of unconscious responses,..(meaning, that,.if anakin were of stable mind,..he would have never recited them)


    All of that sounds like lazy scriptwriting to me. It isn't engaging whatsoever. Instead of having Anakin join the Dark Side for reasons that the audience could possibly understand and maybe even sympathize with, we're shown that the mighty Darth Vader was nothing more than a dimwit; a dimwit that got brainwashed into spouting empty delcarations of Jedi hate that had no basis in anything. I hate that Darth Vader has been reduced to this.
  2. In Topic: "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"

    Posted 8 Apr 2007

    QUOTE (Frank the Rabbit @ Apr 8 2007, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Well, he had always distrusted the council, as they did not trust him.


    Anakin was frustrated by the Council, but is that really grounds for believing they're "evil?" I really don't think so. Maybe Anakin should've said, "From my point of view, the Jedi Council really gets my panties in a bunch!"

    QUOTE (Frank the Rabbit @ Apr 8 2007, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I believe that when mace had palpatine on the ground and was about to kill him, it appeared to anakin as if the jedi WERE in fact taking over.


    I don't buy it. Anakin was the one who led Mace to Palpatine in the first place, and they both agreed that Palpatine had to be dealt with immediately. The ONLY reason why Anakin didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine was because it would've prevented Anakin from learning how to save Padme. Anakin says that Palpatine must stand trial, but it's nothing more than a desperate, last ditch attempt at keeping Palpatine alive so that Anakin can learn what he wants from him. Earlier in the movie, Anakin was easily talked into killing Dooku without trial, so Anakin should know as well as anybody that if someone is too big a threat, they have to be dispatched.

    In conclusion, I don't believe Anakin suddenly thought the Jedi were trying to take over (where would he even get that idea?). Anakin knew that Palpatine had to be stopped, which is why he contacted Mace. However, Anakin's selfishness got the better of him, plain and simple. He wouldn't allow Mace to kill Palpatine, not because he somehow thought the Jedi were trying to take over, but because he wanted to learn how to save Padme; Palpatine's death would've put the kibosh on that. Anakin is fully aware that the "evil Jedi plot to take over" is nothing more than a lie created by Palpatine.

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