[Heccubus]

It's not that I know how it was made and all, it's just...well...look at the way the camer moves through sequences like that. It's too fluid and moves in a way that a regular camera could never move. If they'd shot it by hand, it'd look like that old live-action Spiderman show...*shudder*
Seeing those scenes with a live-action Spidey would've been AMAZING, but it's just not something that would be possible.

[Just your average movie goer]

Seeing those scenes with a live-action Spidey would've been AMAZING, but it's just not something that would be possible.

Apparently Toby was uncooperative and would not agree to let himself really get bitten by a radioactive spider. It's a wonder they still kept him for the movie.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 26 June 2004 - 10:30 AM

[Heccubus]

What a little bitch.

[civilian_number_two]

4) I liked the set up of the character in SPIDERMAN. It was faithful to its source, unlike the nonsense of say, SUPERMAN, BATMAN, BATMAN FOREVER, THE HULK, and DAREDEVIL, to name a few off the top of my head.

Just a note on this comment Civ, I see what you've said with most, but I'm curious about the inclusion of Batman. Apart from making Jack Napier the Joker and the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents what else was out of place here in the history of The Batman?

Actually, I think in the case of Batman, that's enough. Batman's parents were murdered by a stranger. he fights crime because crime, as a faceless entity, killed his parents. Much later a comic book writer in a weak moment gave that stranger a name, and allowed Batman a moment of accidental catharsis when the guy stepped in front of a truck. bad move, that.

Worse in the movie: the Joker killed Batman's parents? Ok, so where is his motivation when he gets to kill the Joker? Is his childhood anger against all criminals not now resolved? Shouldn't he just retire? I think this shift, to make the Joker somehow "more villainous," is weak and unnecessary. It really bugged me the first time I saw it. I also found it weak and unnecessary when DAREDEVIL cribbed the device, making the Kingpin the man responsible for killing Murdock's drunken-palooka dad. At least Daredevil never really derived his motivation from revenge, even if that lame duck of a film tried to make the claim. But Batman! Revenge is all he's got!

The changes in SUPERMAN and SPIDERMAN are frankly cosmetic in comparison. They don't affect the basic motivation of the hero. I included SUPERMAN on the list , obviously because of Brando's red S shirt, but really my biggest complaint with SUPERMAN was how he travelled back in time at the end to save Lois Lane. With SPIDERMAN my biggest complaint was when the rough construction worker shouted from the bridge at the Green Goblin: "Fuck you, Afghanistan! Weesa gonna bomb you!" and then people started throwing rocks and garbage from the Brooklyn Bridge. That bit made me squirm.

[Heccubus]

Civ#2 has a point. In the comics, Batman seemed to have few qualms about causing severe (often fatal) harm to his foes, and they were extremely dark comic books. Once things got rearranged for TV, Batman was suddenly against killing his foes. He used to stalk people and then kill them. Now he just sort of follows them for a bit, and then ties them up. The old "Legends Of The Dark Knight" comics are a good look at the darker side of Batman, and show him as a more vengeful guy. It also introduces Selena Kyle as a prostitute, whereas we were led to believe that she was a secretary in Batman Returns. Oh dear, I'm rambling now.

[Supes]

Actually, I think in the case of Batman, that's enough. Batman's parents were murdered by a stranger. he fights crime because crime, as a faceless entity, killed his parents.

Worse in the movie: the Joker killed Batman's parents?...I think this shift, to make the Joker somehow "more villainous," is weak and unnecessary. It really bugged me the first time I saw it.

That's a fair call and was pretty much what I thought you meant. I tend to agree, but it was the only thing that bugged me about the film as such I let it slide. It does have a big impact as you said, but I also went into the film with the expectation that Hollywood would screw with something that would shit me. I was surprised that theer wasn't more.

Civ#2 has a point. In the comics, Batman seemed to have few qualms about causing severe (often fatal) harm to his foes, and they were extremely dark comic books. Once things got rearranged for TV, Batman was suddenly against killing his foes.

I'm going to have to completely disagree with this Hecc. I don't know what comics you were reading, but from the very beginning Batman has 100% been against killing "anyone". It is the one thing that is an absolute. Yes he was violent and did serious physical damage. But he never intentionally killed. There are examples of lives that he was unable to save, but at no point does Batman intentionally kill. I would set a chalenge for anyone to find me a comic wherein Batman actively kills a person with the intent to do so. Far to many stories have been written based just around how highly Batman holds the sanctity of human life.

What you've described sounds much more like The Punisher.

[Heccubus]

What you've described sounds much more like The Punisher.

I might be getting them mixed up. I sold all of my comics years ago, so it's possible. My bad.

[Supes]

I might be getting them mixed up. I sold all of my comics years ago, so it's possible. My bad.

I can understand that completely. I've got a few thousand and they tend to blur a little unless you reacquaint youself with them from time to time.

[Ferris Wiel]

I'm sure that nobody cares but I saw Spidey2 last night and was utterly blown away.

I thought it was fantastic (as superhero movies go):

*Doc Ock is great. Molina did a super job of translating the character within context of the plot. His characterization as a caring, devoted husband, driven man of science and generous, honest friend whose life is destroyed by his work is picture perfect and the externalized internal conflict between the man and the machine (gee, Lucas, perhaps you could have taken a few notes) was spot-on.

*CGI looked nice. I won't say it was excellent, but it was more difficult to distinguish between CG and "real" Spidey. Also, in alot of the scenes even when it was obviously CGI, the lighting, reflection and color looked more like a guy in a suit. Improved 300% over the first film. (By the way, for the uninitiated, John Dykstra did the FX for both Spidey and Spidey2, I thought it was a pretty good showing - and a nice "fuckyou" to Lucas when the film did better domestic first weekend business than AOTC).

*The humor, while still lacking in the witty banter area (my guess would be due to Spidey's pain over Octavius), was still there and appropriate in the several scenes in which it was used.

*Three words - J. Jonah Jameson. He made the film in many aspects, I loved the way he played both sides against the middle, completely true to text.

*Unintended consequences not going to be swept under mat (unlike Star Wars PT). Lots of meat here for a sequel and I hope Raimi doesn't turn Burton and bug out on the third flick.

Anyhow, twice as many raves as rants so I'll leave it at that.

Much love,

FW

[Vwing]

Yeah I'm going to see it in a couple of hours. Everyone's saying it's great, hope I think so. I'll let ya know.

[Heccubus]

I just read the latest post over at Penny Arcade, and Tycho seemed to like it. That guy hates EVERYTHING, so it has to be at least somewhat enjoyable. I might go check it out this weekend, since I missed the first one in theatres.

[SimeSublime]

I think I'm seeing it on Monday. Can't wait.

[Jordan]

After watching the film agian... I hate it. I can't believe I told people I liked it after the frist viewing!

The Bridge scene was so lame. Goblin runs away after a shot in the face from so old shoe? The people of NY fighting back was the stupidest thing they could have done.

I couted 5 instances where GG could have killed SM in a second. Instead he chooses to fly around like an idiot and laugh.

Also, GG's costume was wack! I really analyzed his helmut... LAME!

[Just your average movie goer]

Welcome to the Spiderman-haters club, Jordan.

Wow - with you, Mike Mac and myself, we now have three members!

[Jordan]

I still like the score to the film. And of course Mary Jane. Kirsten Dunst is fine. If you don't believe me go watch BRING IT ON.