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Spider-man 2

#1 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 11:18 PM

Just saw it, might as well make a thread of it. First off, I can't believe how emotional it was. The combination of the music, story, and, yes, believe it or not, acting just made this probably the most emotional superhero story of all-time, perhaps even greater than the original Superman. The movie itself I don't think quite reaches the level of the original Superman, though it almost does.

The beginning was VERY slow, one of the main reasons why it doesn't get a full 5/5 for me. They just kept hitting you in the face with Peter Parker's misfortunes, and after a while it just got annoying. Enough is enough, we get the picture, his life as Spider-man makes him miserable, get on with the movie. After that, though, it's pretty much gold.

Molina turns in a very good performance as Doc Ock, making a villain who, yes, is much better than Dafoe's Goblin. I like how they treated him as a person and really as a tragic villain, instead of just your run-of-the-mill crazy. I know you could make the same case for the Green Goblin, but he was never really established as a "good" guy, even though he was fairly likeable as Osborne. But Octavius is someone you really like, and you're really saddened when he turns into Doc Ock.

In fact, all the performances are very good. There really were no cringe moments here as there were in the first one. There were a few times in the MJ-Peter scenes when it got close, but it never reached that level.

The special effects, much better than the first film. There were still a couple of moments when you could definitely tell it was CGI, but most of it was seamless. The action is great, though at one time in the movie (forgot when) I thought it got a bit repetitive. But for the most part it is very entertaining.

The music got a little too forceful at times, but for the most part, Elfman delivers an epic, moving score. It's not on the level of the Superman score or Elfman's own Batman score, but it is very good, and is MUCH better than his Hulk score.

The ending is the best part about the movie. Great ending. Don't want to give anything away so I won't, but it is, well, it's really good, that's all I'll say.

I also love all the openings they leave for sequels, even though this really can stand on its own as a great superhero movie. There are at least 3 potential villains introduced in this movie (Doc Connors, Venom, and one who I won't name but you'll see in the ending, but should be able to guess even without seeing Spidey 2), and the future looks bright for the web-slinger.

****1/2 / *****

This post has been edited by Vwing: 01 July 2004 - 10:20 PM

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#2 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 01:17 AM

QUOTE
Doc Connors, Venom, and one who I won't name but you'll see in the ending, but should be able to guess even without seeing Spidey 2


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#3 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 08:59 AM

It was great. I really was surprised when during an extended action sequence, I was smiling, open-mouthed. Lots of stuff to balance off naysaying, more yet leaves moviegoers wanting.

I really liked the opening titles.
the transformation was gripping. Including the prelude.
enjoyed the use of music; elfman et al.
I cringe at what may become a "shaken, not stirred" staple, however.

I'm glad I went. And I DID NOT leave, shuffling my feet, nodding my head in disbelief.

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#4 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:00 AM

Oh, just a couple things I want to clear up. The main part of Elfman's score that I didn't like was the Doc Ock theme, a couple times when it is used it is powerful, but it is used over and over and over again, and really becomes more annoying than powerful and took me a little out of the movie at some points.

Also Doc Connors, for those who don't know, transforms into the Lizard, which is why he is a villain possibility, and Venom (I could be wrong on this) I believe is introduced by John Jameson who brings it back from the moon. And see the movie Jordan, I won't spoil it for anyone here who doesn't know.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot this, but J. Jonah Jameson is fabulous! I don't know who plays him, but he is EXACTLY like how I pictured him, it's unbelieveable. He also has the funniest lines "Tell her not to open the caviar." Trust me, in context it's very funny.

This post has been edited by Vwing: 01 July 2004 - 11:07 AM

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#5 User is offline   Ferris Wiel Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:51 AM

I wish this new topic hadn't been started. I had put my comments (at least the initials) down in the other Spidey2 thread.

Oh, well.

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#6 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 03:10 PM

Well wasn't the other thread really a Spidey 1 thread? And you can just copy them over to here Ferris. Sorry though.
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#7 User is offline   Private Zod Icon

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 09:27 PM

I agree with your assessment 100%. I actually thought it was the best comic movie I ever saw. Some things:

1. The origin of Venom had to do with The Secret Wars, so there is really no way they could use that for these movies. Having the astronaut bring it back though would be a good idea, and based on what happens to him in the film, it gives his rage against spidey motivation.

2. The actor is JK Simmons who plays Jameson who was fantastic on both "Oz" and "Law and Order, SVU". Every time he came on the screen I laughed, and it was neither forced nor corney. That is one thing I was very impressed with, how funny the film was. The elevator scene, the "Raindrops..." sequence, and every scene with Jameson.

3. I agree with the overload at the beginning of how much Peter's life sucks. Not a major gripe, but after a while it got to be too much.

4. It is amazing how Kirsten Dunst goes from fugly to hot as quickly as a scene changes.

5. The foreshadowing for the next film was spectacular.

6. The only other small gripe I had was his powers fading on him and then coming back. Didn't quite care for that he could turn his powers on/off depending on his mood.

Overall, a solid "A"
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#8 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 03:02 PM

I'm with you on point 6 totally. It's like a car battery that might/might not start. I'd lose faith and either get a new battery, or find another way to get around.

There was also a scene that reminded me of the SNL Will Ferrell "lovers who love love, my love" bit. great film tho.
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#9 User is offline   looktothesky Icon

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 10:04 AM

I really enjoyed this movie. It gave Peter more of an everyday guy feel than the first one did. I guess it was just building up the character relationship between and the viewers.

I just saw it yesterday. wub.gif
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#10 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 11:04 PM

This is a fantastic movie!!! My favorite scene, without a doubt, is the subway scene. I don't want to give too much away, but it made me swell with pride that these people loved Spidey so much that they'd do that for him. And, it felt very real. I think this is some of Raimi's best work.

AND that they'd do it despite JJ Jameson's tabloid. They knew the truth. smile.gif

As for JJ Jameson, yeah, he's damn good. I'm glad he had more screen time in this. One of the aspects of the character I like about him is that he lived for the chase of Spidey, and was depressed when Spidey called it quits, because then JJ basically had nothing to "live for" anymore; so great stuff.

Okay... where was Lucy Lawless? Am I going senile? How did i miss her?

In the comics, John Jameson eventually becomes Man-Wolf, but having Venom take him would be an excellent idea, too.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 03 July 2004 - 11:18 PM

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Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#11 User is offline   Ninja Duck Icon

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 11:43 PM

Yes, I thought it was a great movie, better than the first, etc.

Seeing it raises a few thoughts about the first, though.

I noticed they had a burning building scene in both. I'm not complaining or anything. But what are these movies going to teach kids about fire safety?

Anyway. I think the fiery doom scene in this one was better. I'll ask my other question in the Spiderman 1 thread.
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#12 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 12:29 PM

I just saw this film and thought I'd join in with everyone else in saying that it was a big let-down.

I agree with you, guys; this film was just a retread of the last one.

Similarities with SPIDERMAN (not superficial)

1 ) Fatherly scientist type driven insane by his own invention. Humanized at end by contact with Peter (I see a third in the works).

2 ) Identical love triangle.

3 ) Peter goes from weakling to hero.

4 ) Burning buiding / train full of people.

5 ) Rousing speeches from Ben Parker (delivered in dream) and Aunt May.

6 ) More of that post - 9/11 "New York family" shit.

7 ) Unnecessary use of Willem Defoe.

Weaknesses:

1 ) Identical villain / overacting.

2 ) Completely inane subplot about loss of powers.

3 ) Damsel-in distress sequence offers precious little in the way of upskirt voyeurism.

4 ) Mary Jane's dress stays bone-dry in extended battle next to water.

Nerdy complaints:

5 ) Doc Ock is strong, but is not fast enough to fight a high-speed battle on a moving train. If everyone gets to be as fast as Spiderman, I have to buy that he's way stronger than he ought to be. And then we're in a place where all heros and villain have identical abilitites, and looks and uses of these powers are just for show.

5a) The Spiderman comics I read would never have let Parker stop a train. That's just stupid.

6 ) This film seemed more like EVIL DEAD than any film Sam Raimi has made since. Tone it down, man!!!! What is this, DARKMAN?


All that said, I liked it for a lot of the reasons other people here mentioned. Comedy good, cameos the usual fun, character setups excellent. Not as good as the slow buildup of characters in the X MEN films (which also, note this, did not by and large fall victim to the comic-movie cliche of killing off their villains), but well-established nonetheless.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 07 July 2004 - 04:35 AM

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#13 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 03:22 AM

Let down? The film was great. And Tobey McGuire learnt to act for this one, too.
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#14 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE
I just saw this film and thought I'd join in with everyone else in saying that it was a big let-down.


QUOTE
All that said, I liked it for a lot of the reasons other people here mentioned. Comedy good, cameos the usual fun, character setups excellent. Not as good as the slow buildup of characters in the X MEN films (which also, note this, did not by and large fall victim to the comic-movie cliche of killing off their villains), but well-established nonetheless.



I hated the first movie and was debating whether to see the sequel. After reading civs, assesment..... I will not be in too much of a hurry to see this movie. I will wait for the DVD. dry.gif :

Actually scratch that, they will probably package the sequel with the original into a four DVD set costing $99.99. Damn! I may have to see this crap after all!!!! dry.gif


I agree with your statement about killing villains. Not only is it a waste of potential characters, but it also is not true to the comic genre. For the most part heroes don't kill their villains. It starts becoming ridiculous when your heroes 'indirectly" kill their enemies.

However in Spiderman, the Green Goblin kind of has to die in the movie, due to the lore behind the Green Goblin story and Spiderman. It kind of makes you wish that they killed Gwen Stacy {which Kirsten Dunst would have been perfect for the role!!!!!] in the movie as wqas the case in the actual storyline.

Again, can someone tell me what the big deal is with Kirsten Dunst?????!!!!

Yes, she is pretty and I wouldn;t mind making a go at her. But people seem to act like she is the f'ing reincarnation of Grace Kelly or something.

Please!! I have seen 12 year olds with better bodies and looks than her.
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#15 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE
Similarities with SPIDERMAN (not superficial)

1 ) Fatherly scientist type driven insane by his own invention. Humanized at end by contact with Peter (I see a third in the works).

2 ) Identical love triangle.

3 ) Peter goes from weakling to hero.

4 ) Burning buiding / train full of people.

5 ) Rousing speeches from Ben Parker (delivered in dream) and Aunt May.

6 ) More of that post - 9/11 "New York family" shit.

7 ) Unnecessary use of Willem Defoe.

Weaknesses:

1 ) Identical villain / overacting.

2 ) Completely inane subplot about loss of powers.

3 ) Damsel-in distress sequence offers precious little in the way of upskirt voyeurism.

4 ) Mary Jane's dress stays bone-dry in extended battle next to water.


Thanks, civ. These are a lot of the same weakness I postualated that this movie would have.

Sam Raimi doesn't understand the lore behind Spider-Man the way the director of X-Men did with his subject {Damn, I forgot the guys name!!!! yell.gif }

IMO, the failures of the first movie wrecked the whole series for me. I will see it, though............at some point.

BTW Did they bring Macy Gray back? :yuck:
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