Reagans funeral on and on
#46
Posted 16 June 2004 - 10:34 AM
JM's official press secretary, scientific advisor, diplomat and apparent antagonist?
#47
Posted 16 June 2004 - 01:57 PM
I'm a horny adolescent, leave me alone!
Less Is More v4
Now resigned to a readership of me, my cat and some fish
#48
Posted 17 June 2004 - 01:05 AM
"memetic subjugation"!!!!! (wossat?)
People keep diaries, people reminisce, somewhere is something like truth, not the perfect truth, but enough to balance the victors truth.
In the long run we are often prsented with the "truth", but even these truths need to be questioned as they are based around personal biases and perceptions. Pontious Pilate in Jesus Christ Superstar says it quite well, "We both have truths, are mine the same as yours?"
It's only really by taking stock of everything presented that we are able to get a better understanding of what is truthful and what is fabrication or bias. The problem with this is that we are not always in a position to access all the data immediately. In the modern day with mass communication it is getting easier, but by the same token restrictions on information have been made tighter. People are more aware and thus try to cover up more.
For example, for a long time after WWII we were presented with the Allies version of the war. Text books, articles, reports and commentaries were written based on what allied soldiers said or allied commanders had experienced. It's only been fairly recently that more data has been made available about the experiences of the other side. The Germans, Italians and Japanese. As more information becomes available we get to develop a different picture of what had taken place and why people did what they did.
Also science itself has been able to contribute to these matters. I'll tell you later about some of the experiments done in the 50's and 60's that were designed to replicate the experiences of some of the German soldiers in WWII, and looked at why and how they could do some of the things they did.
More recently we have been able to get pictures of events more rapidly and thus form opinions through a more diverse range of data - from both sides. Iraq is the most obvious case in point. Had this war happened 60 years ago, we would have a very different perspective of what is right and wrong in this war.
der Mudda, I'm familiar with a quote by, George McGovern. It goes like this:
"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." Is this the one you were thinking of, because I personally think it's a wonderful albeit sad but true quote?
Chyld, your comment about breast are indeed very valid. Breasts are actually quite difficult to identify in a line up and accurately put a face and name to them. I'm fairly sure that you can figure out why though with all the time spent trying to memorise what they look like.
Damn! Long post. Sorry people!
Yoda
#49
Posted 17 June 2004 - 02:03 AM
Also, "subjugation" was just a word I chose. The key word was "memetic". I could have used "memetic subversion" or something of the like. "Subjugation" was merely the first word that popped into my head, so don't take it to be the scientific term. Just so you don't misunderstand.
Jimbo: We had to kill them to keep them from going extinct.
#50
Posted 17 June 2004 - 02:42 AM
Agreed! Vietnam is a great example, but I'd realised that I'd already gone on longr than intended so cut back the examples.
Yoda
#51
Posted 17 June 2004 - 03:14 AM
Supes: Would you be refering to Milgram's obedience to authority experiments?
#52
Posted 17 June 2004 - 03:21 AM
Is that where they give average people authority as guards and some other average people the part of prisoners, and then they see what happens?
Jimbo: We had to kill them to keep them from going extinct.
#53
Posted 17 June 2004 - 03:38 AM
That probably made no sense as an explanation, google it if you're confused.
#54
Posted 17 June 2004 - 03:42 AM
This post has been edited by Mist: 17 June 2004 - 03:43 AM
Jimbo: We had to kill them to keep them from going extinct.
#55
Posted 17 June 2004 - 05:53 AM
JM's official press secretary, scientific advisor, diplomat and apparent antagonist?
#56
Posted 17 June 2004 - 09:15 PM
Supes: Would you be refering to Milgram's obedience to authority experiments?
Nice work Skinny! You nailed them both. I was indeed referring to Milgram and Zimbardo's experiments. Highly unethical by todays standard, but they certainly raised the question and answered quite a few as well about social conditioning and obedience.
I'll leave Mist hanging a little longer for the fuller details though.
I love this group. So many people with such diverse interests.
Yoda
#57
Posted 18 June 2004 - 01:33 AM
I'm glad you've joined our little group, Supes. Mudda, too, even though she was kind of here before too. Simey too, but I'm kind of new to Yahtz's forums, so you all may have been in before, and I just don't know it.
2
chaingang chorus: "Look down. Look down. You're here until you die."
(should we start a new topic for this experiment thing?)
This post has been edited by Mist: 18 June 2004 - 01:40 AM
Jimbo: We had to kill them to keep them from going extinct.
#58
Posted 18 June 2004 - 05:33 AM
JM's official press secretary, scientific advisor, diplomat and apparent antagonist?
#60
Posted 19 June 2004 - 11:53 PM
I love it when we're laughing at and with each other.
It's all very interesting, but we do have a tendency to get a teensy bit pompous, and a teensy bit stating the bleeding obvious.
I don't know the names of these experiments you talk about, but I do remember reading about an experiment where students or volunteers were giving electric shocks to people, in which the power was increased until the people were screaming in simulated agony although the students believed it to be real. yet they didn't stop inflicting the pain because those in charge told them to continue.
This is to demonstrate that people will follow orders, and can divorce themselves from the suffering of others.
We know that.