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Somali piracy

#1 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:33 PM

So, opinions on Somalia's pirates? Now I know this will be no surprise, but I greatly sympathize with these fellows. The reason for the whole pirate gig is that fishing trawlers from rich capitalist nations overfished somalia's waters since no one could stop them, so the somali fishermen started pirating the trawlers and later moved on to other ships to keep making their living since all the fish were gone. As I see it they're warriors against imperialism, and I hope to go there and do a story on them this winter.

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#2 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:51 AM

That's the reason? I thought it was more like because they were generally poor as can be but happened to have some weapons on their hands, so why not. Which also has to do with the filthy, filthy capitalist piggies, but even more so with too many inner squabbles and leaders who preferred to exchange help funds for more weapons.

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#3 User is offline   BigStupidDogFacedArse Icon

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:35 AM

The overfishing due to intrusive 'capatalitic nations', like communist China, did spur piracy. Local fisherman banded together and formed this mairne malitia to champion their costal rights and resources. However, over time they began to profit more from piracy than fishing, so they became full time pirates who champion nothing and steal for their own personal gain. They aren't fighitng against imperialism any longer, and one could make a sound argument they never were in the first place.

This post has been edited by BigStupidDogFacedArse: 30 June 2009 - 03:39 AM

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#4 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:02 PM

Yeah... Sorry dude but it's not just capitalists that do bad things. Gonna have to back BSDFA on the bit about China having a big part in the overfishing thing.\\

Which will probably prompt a comment about how China is REALLY just another piggy capitalist country in disguise, eh?
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#5 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:09 PM

Well, in that sense, he does have a point. Communists never did anything wrong so far... but then again, nobody's ever seen a real communist yet.

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#6 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 07:26 PM

Oh, come on. I mean, I get it with the terrorist guys, yeah. They had some serious oppression going on.

The Somali pirates may be a result of crazy capitalism. And I do sympathize with them too. I mean, they're just doing what they can to get by. But even if they're a result of the capitalists, I doubt that they're actively fighting against them in the name of Communism. They're more actively fighting against them in the name of gimme some goddamn money I'm hungry.

Poor people stealing isn't communism. They may need it, and Communism may get it for them, but I don't doubt that most of the Somali pirates would be more than happy to take more than their 'fair share'
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#7 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 02:32 AM

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They aren't fighitng against imperialism any longer, and one could make a sound argument they never were in the first place.


I think whether its their stated goal or not, they are still fighting multinational interests by their actions. The fact that NATO and so forth have gotten involved makes it clear that the actions are in some fashion bothering the imperialist powers. If only in that it shows that poor people, should they be desperate enough, are ready to take up arms and take what they need (or more).

As for the china talk, its possible for a nation to be imperialist without being openly or ideologically capitalist, Che Guevara himself said that.

I said nothing about communism. Communism is a tool to fight imperialism. So is piracy it seems. Imperialism is a sympthom of capitalism but not exclusive to capitalism. Fighting imperialism, likewise, is not exclusive to communism.

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#8 User is offline   Cyzyk Icon

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 07:40 AM

Bah, they aren't "communists." They are nothing more than the same local criminals who keep the country in anarchy for their individual short-term benefit. The ones who attack the ships that try to bring aid to their nation's children and sick. They aren't even all Somalis, but just violent, amoral people who backstab each other and blow their ill-gotten gains on guns, drugs, and prostitutes, who are probably abused and/or children more often than not.

Overfishing has nothing to do with Somalia being a failed state.
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#9 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:07 PM

Ah here we go, some good old fashioned bombast.

First of all, I never said anyone was a communist, I dont know who even did. And the pirates have very little to do with the warlord clans that maintain the state of anarchy there. As for attacking aid ships, yeah that does occasionally happen I'm sure, but aid ships are not their target and they dont take them as often as you seem to think, simply because packs of bulk rice are not as profitable or useful as other things, and that rice is going to Somalia anyhow.

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They aren't even all Somalis, but just violent, amoral people who backstab each other and blow their ill-gotten gains on guns, drugs, and prostitutes, who are probably abused and/or children more often than not.


Children? Abused? Prostitutes? Doing drugs? Not even all Somalis! Why they're monsters!

Edit: I'm sorry I just caught your meaning that they purposely hire protitutes who are abused children in order to abuse them? Is this abuse outside the normal realm of prostitution? I'm a bit fuzzy on the subject. Were the prostitutes already pre-abused? Does that make them better prostitutes and thats why they are preferable to non abused ones?

You really don't like pirates. You don't happen to be a commodore in the Royal Navy or something do you?

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Overfishing has nothing to do with Somalia being a failed state.


Fair enough, but it does have a lot to do with their fishery industry collapsing and leading people with boats to resort to piracy, which is what we're talking about.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 01 July 2009 - 08:17 PM

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#10 User is offline   BigStupidDogFacedArse Icon

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:22 PM

Over fishing of Somali stocks is directly linked to it's standing as a failed state. They can't police their own waters, had they been able then this would'nt be an issue. My communist jab was nothing more than tongue in cheek to Hofman's "capitalistic" remark. In a sea of good examples of capitalistic greed and expansion, this one is not on par.

The Foreign boats fishing in these waters are doing so on their own terms without endorsement from their governments. It's neither capitalistic nor imperialistic; it's just blatant theft.

I agree that something should be done. However, the Somalis first (and probably worst) option was forming a pirates club. This group quickly disseminated into a brotherhood of thieves.

This post has been edited by BigStupidDogFacedArse: 01 July 2009 - 08:22 PM

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#11 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 07:08 PM

stealing is wrong.
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#12 User is offline   reiner Icon

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:42 AM

The best part of the whole piracy thing is turning on CNN and occasionaly seeing PIRATE ATTACK in big bold, bright lettering.
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#13 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 11:39 PM

and for that I'm greatful
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#14 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:36 PM

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They can't police their own waters, had they been able then this would'nt be an issue.


And for that their fishermen deserve to just give up and starve? This is an attempt by poor folks not only to protect whats theirs, but to take more. The root cause is not the situation of Somalia's government, but the capitalists who chose to take advantage of that.

QUOTE
In a sea of good examples of capitalistic greed and expansion, this one is not on par.


I never made a "capitalistic" comment because capitalist is the adjective and noun form of capitalist, there neednt be any IC at the end. I would like to know why you consider the exploitation of a weakened government and its people to not be an example of imperialism or capitalist greed.

Your comment that it is just blatant theft, well, really. imperialism IS just blatant theft, at least today it is. Formerly governments set up protectorates, puppet states or actual colonies. Now we simply bribe the right people into collusion and take what we want from the developing world.

Yep, the poor stealing from the rich isnt really something I'm too worried about. Maybe my views will change when I go to investigate.

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#15 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:07 PM

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Maybe my views will change when I go to investigate.


Wait, you're going to Somalia now?
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