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Plausibility is Not LOVIBILITY Star Wars

#1 User is offline   Rory Icon

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 05:21 PM

I think most of your points about why Episode 1 and 2 suck are justified. Based on a tiny amount of evidence, I have gathered that a number of your critics go about trying to debunk your points in the wrong spirit. It seems that these critics claim that, because something is plausible, it is perfectly alright to include in the movie. These people might claim, for example, that "People in Star Wars need to eat! Why couldn't they have diners?!" or "Maybe Anakin just happened to find a database program containing over 80,000 dialects on the ground one day," or "R2D2 really did earn that metal that he got for fixing the hyberdrive. DROIDS HAVE FEELINGS TOO."

What they fail to consider is, not whether there could be some explanation for how or why something happened in the movie, but whether such a thing Should have been included to begin with. Traditional American looking diners DO destroy the atmosphere, slave boys Shouldn't be able to get there hands on factory model components, and Droids are NOT Treated with much respect at all in Star Wars, plain and simple.

If, in a movie set in present day America, a low income Garbage Man lived in a Japanese paper house, owned a porshe, and was invited to formal balls, we, as the audience would demand an explanation. Furthermore, we would expect that these facts would play a crucial important part in the story. Star Wars gives little to no explanations for its inconsistancies, and rarely do they play an important part in the story as a whole.
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Posted 30 October 2003 - 07:11 PM

Yes it is sad but true. The fact is most people like QUAINT. I should know as whenever I go abroard all I ever here when I find the hotel is Americans saying how quaint my country (England) is.

This quaintness is shown in the diner you mentioned and Jar Jar Binks. People see a diner and find comfort in the fact that somewhere their lifestyle is being copied or even emulated.

Remember however that this prequel trilogy has introduced a generation to the star wars universe, thus the originol trilogy and maybe an introduction to sci-fi ergo 2001 a space oddeysey.
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#3 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 09:39 PM

That diner scene was most likely just an excuse for him to warm up for making his entirely CGI prequel to American Graffiti.
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Posted 31 October 2003 - 01:34 PM

If he makes that movie, I'm going to hunt him down and garrote him.
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Posted 31 October 2003 - 02:55 PM

I don't know. The more I think about it the more I'm looking forward to it.
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#6 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 07:25 PM

In the same regard you're looking forward to episode 3?

I suppose the more projects Lucas wastes his time on, the less time he has to louse up his fairy tale about the force. Do you suppose the force (*whatever* that is in the next episode) is affected by sunspots, or have his children already rejected that possibility (as I have future viewings of episodes 1 & 2?)
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#7 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 09:39 PM

I think that most of your points for Episode I and many for II are justified, definitely, however would just like to argue the one about C3P0 being built by Anakin. Mind you, I think this was a very stupid thing to do, and I don't like it, but it is much more than plausible that in an age of Star Wars, with all the technology, that yes, even a kid like Anakin could program C3P0 with a lot of languages that he downloaded off the holonet or whatever. And also, why does 3P0 have to necessarily know the languages right off the bat? Isn't it possible that Anakin built him without the languages, and they were added in later by, say, Owen Lars or Bail Organa or Amidala or someone? I think you are very much right to argue that it was a ridiculous idea to have Anakin be the maker of C3P0, but I think you argue it in the wrong way.
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#8 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 10:50 PM

I think starwars blows
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Posted 01 November 2003 - 03:12 AM

Replying to Vwing here.

This is the thing, re Anikin and C3P0: it just doesn't make any *narrative* sense for Anikin to have built C3P0. He's a slave, working for a Jewish auto mechanic in pre-Christian Rome. He build his mother a protocol droid, and it is fluent in six million forms of communicatioin, including neolithic Ewok. This is just total nonsense, dude. His motyher is a slave with no obvious duties, owned by the same auto mechanic. She just doesn't *need* such a droid. I doubt she entertains foreign dignitaries on any kind of regular basis, and likely doesn't have any use for a servant versed in which fork you use when served Gundark testicle. The only need here was that Lucas felt he needed to have all of his characters introduced to one another in uncomfortable and embarrassing ways.

More to the point, Darth Vader never reacts with any sort of recognition to the droids later, and neither does Owen, who briefly owned C3P0 as well. So, like R2's jet boots, midichlorians, droid armies, and Yoda's swordplay, Lucas is willing to break entirely with continuity for no good reason at all.

More more to the point, the worst thing Lucas could have come up with was to have 3P0's *first words* be a lame quote of something he'll say decades later, "I don't think this floor is entirely stable." (remember, Obi-Wan's first words are also a lame rehash of an old line). Lucas gave up in this series of prequels on the idea of producing any new memories; he's content with meekly quoting the original series, in a manner less inventive even than the Wayans' SCARY MOVIEs.

Mike M.
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#10 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 02:03 PM

You misunderstand me, again I hate the idea that Anakin made Threepio, for the other reasons that you mentioned, but as far as the languages themselves go, it's not so hard to believe. For other reasons it's horrible, but the language thing I think is fairly believeable.
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Posted 01 November 2003 - 04:32 PM

OK. I see your point.

This is pretty much right on target with the subject line of this thread. I agree that it is plausible that Anikin bought and assembled a protocol droid for his mother, and that maybe some time later it was fitted with all those languages. So you're right that Nate's attack on the idea of 3P0's origin is perhaps imperfect. But I agree with the founder of this thread that plausibility is not necessarily enough to make the detail worthy.

Anyway, I got your point from the beginning. Sorry, but I just chose to use it as a springboard to rant about something tht probably bothers both of us equally. For instance, sure it's possible that Wookiees would hold seats in the senate, but whya are we going there when there's a story to be told?

On top of all the time wasted reintroducing characters, Lucas seriously missed the boat when he decided to "mature" his series of kids' adventure films with all these so-called grown-up politics. Why does Amidala have to be an elected official? Wasn't Leia a princess? Do we elect queens now? What the hell is going on?

Mike.

PS: Incidentally, I should come clean here and mention that while I saw THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK nearly a dozen times during its first theatrical run, I have seen PM only twice and I will never see CLONES. I will also not be seeing the next film. Lucas has taken my childhood memories and kicked them in the nuts. I'm not planning to give him any of my money, and definitely none of my time.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#12 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 07:15 PM

Empire was definitely terrific. I spent all summer in the theatre, and I remember a big criticism, that did NOT bother me was "well, where was the ENDING?" I believe a contributing factor to the film's success WAS the reintroduction of the characters. (Plus great filmmaking, directing, character development, story arcs and special effects that "fit.") I guess I've seen Empire more than all the others (repeated viewings, in some cases... ashamed to say) combined.

ROTJ disappointed, but I suppose it was just warming me up for the long haul.

I remember seeing Phantom menace on opening day, and it was a little creepy. The whole virgin birth thing bothered me; but not as much as the fellow two seats down who shrieked with glee, in an orgasmic sort of way when R2 met 3P0 for the first time. The comment about why doesn't Vader recognize the droids? is a great point. (Save the inevitable argument "well, that's why artoo was fired upon at the end of Ep.4" and "that's why he had threepio dismembered in Empire")

So, in a continuity thing it's ok to reintroduce characters we know and love. to Pre-reintroduce them for the sake of doing so is just cheap. Kind of like "forced fun" which usually doesn't work. Give us new characters we actually care about, and we'll actually look forward to seeing them again. Meesum tink so anyway.
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Posted 02 November 2003 - 07:37 AM

Lucas has taken my childhood memories and kicked them in the nuts.

ROFLOL. I'm gonna keep quoting you on that one.

I don't know how ESB ever got made? Something about the input from the writer, director, and editor which helped make Lucas' 2nd film the best yet.

Someone else in another post said people like things "quaint". I like to think of people preferring the romantic notion of elements in SW. Being a swordsman, I grouse at the lightsaber fighting in EP 1 and 2. Is it just me, or don't you think they should've gotten someone who actually knows fencing instead of a stunt person? Gillard is NOT a fencer. Nowhere in his resume (on starwars.com) does it show he's had any formal training. I liked Ray Park's performance because he had ability.

Being a historian, I grouse at the simplicity of the politics of SW. I do like the fact that Naboo elite are elected by the general populace (which is historically accurate in many countries), but instead of a consistent political world, you get hodge-podge scripting where political facts seem to be made up spur-of-the-moment to help the plot to move on. We don't know anything about the monarchy in Shakespeare's Hamlet and yet we're completely embroiled in Denmark's politics.

The first three films were adventure movies. Even ROTJ had a flow to it. In the new films, there's so much dry, boring exposition and performances. Tired of drag racing and trying to outdo Bladerunner. GL should've had someone else direct, and McCallum (a complete Yes-man) should be dumped. GL needs people to challenge his ideas instead of prostrating themselves before him when he walks into a room. Did you see the behind-the-scenes from the DVD's. Everyone either worships the guy or approaches him fearfully as if they're going to loose their job.
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#14 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 02 November 2003 - 02:50 PM

Ugg I hate all this anti-ROTJ sentiment (even ROTJ had a flow to it. Watch it again, it's a great movie, especially as a concluding movie to a series which left many, many questions that needed answering. The Ewoks are not that bad, I watched it again to make sure after so much anti-Ewok stuff I had heard, they really aren't bad. The scenes in Jabba's palace are good, the Emperor's scenes are the best in the trilogy, the space battle is probably the best space battle ever filmed. It really is much better than people have made it out to be over the years, as are the Ewoks.
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Posted 02 November 2003 - 08:54 PM

In comparison to the new prequels, RotJ was a great flick. Some of the dialogue was pretty corny and forced but there were very good action scenes and a sense of completion at the end. Unlike the original trilogy where fans would watch each one hundreds of times (myself included) out of sheer interest and joy, these films are more out of obligation to watch.

Sad state of affairs that the last film has people hoping it is not a cluster-f***, instead anticipating it as the completion of two trilogies worth of amazing film-dom.

Side note: McCullum has announced that the last film will be no more than 2 hours long (because of some phobia Lucas has that people will lose interest in films over 2.5 hours long). With all the shit they have to put into this film (end of Clone Wars, Anakin to dark side, kill off Windu, fight Kenobi, become Vader, Empire take over, birth and hiding of twins), does anyone really think this next film is going to come off as anything than choppy with a bunch of "Hey remember this guy from the original trilogy."

FU Lucas.
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