[J m HofMarN]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30136788/

what else can you say about a story like this?

Reached for comment, Slade helpfully pointed out "Yeah, what the fuck?"

to sum it up for those too lazy to click, some guy sworded his gramma to death because she got in the middle of a fight with him and her brother. There are not nearly enough details about this. I expect a youtube video of the battle complete with tracks from Duel of the Fates, and I also want to know whether this was a pre-arranged honor duel or just a random battle that erupted in indianapolis. THE INCREASINGLY TYRANICAL HOFFMAN DEMANDS ANSWERS!

[Vesuvius]

I also want to know whether this was a pre-arranged honor duel or just a random battle that erupted in indianapolis.

I highly doubt this was a pre-arranged honor duel because there was a witness, grandma, and she was trying to break it up and got killed.

I'm strongly thinking that this was a random battle happened between rednecks/hicks that were either arguing over who's sword is better, or they started fooling around with them and someone drew blood accidentally and the other retaliated.

When I spar against others, it's always secluded so no one can get in the way/call the cops. Even when training with my girlfriend, we choose remote locations for it. If this was an actual duel that these guys were going for, they should have been far enough away from everyone to fight it out.

[J m HofMarN]

True, but honor duels generally involve witnesses. Perhaps the grandma was one of their seconds, as the laws of dueling state each combatant aught to have one. Rednecks are not commonly armed with swords, and I really don't think that old men fool around with swords that often.

When me and my friends spar its generally right out in the open, but we've never done so across three generations, and let's face it, the one guy that got sworded was an inlaw and you know how stuff works with them. I prefer to think this was an honor duel, and I am still waiting for the video. Snap to it, people.

[Vesuvius]

Hmmm... the reason I still lean toward the redneck/hick argument is because they seem to come out in packs when films such as Kill Bill and the Last Samurai were released.

I also stand by this argument due to the fact that I caught an episode of Cheaters, (I know, it's a crappy source for an argument) and two rednecks were fighting over this skanky woman. One guy goes to his dresser and pulls out a Kill Bill style replica sword and tries to go apesh*t on the other dude along with the camera crew.

I've also seen a number of rednecks/hicks frequent the local martial arts supply store and "show off" their "skills" and they have no idea as of what they're doing.

Mainly because I've seen this behavior (outside of television) I'm guessing these guys got into an altercation that had nothing to do with any notion of honor.

[J m HofMarN]

Looking at this now, I'm starting to lean towards the possibility of a random attack. This occured after midnight, so the time is wrong for a proper, arranged duel. I just cant understand how something this rad could happen at random. I mean, the chances of a kickass sword fight between two old guys is pretty fookin low without some kind of arrangement or catalyst.

I can see a random altercation with, say, knives or guns, but you have to really want to do some swording to carry a sword around. The scenario you are putting forth is that the forty year old grandson went there to kill his father in law with a sword, but that his father in law happened to have a sword to defend himself, and then granny noticed it and went out to stop them or maybe join in.

I really wish the news would start putting forth more details so one of us can be right.

[civilian_number_two]

A plague on both your houses!

[TruJade]

Hmmm... the reason I still lean toward the redneck/hick argument is because they seem to come out in packs when films such as Kill Bill and the Last Samurai were released.

I also stand by this argument due to the fact that I caught an episode of Cheaters, (I know, it's a crappy source for an argument) and two rednecks were fighting over this skanky woman. One guy goes to his dresser and pulls out a Kill Bill style replica sword and tries to go apesh*t on the other dude along with the camera crew.

CHEATERS!?!?!
that show is still on?
so hilarious

Its like Springer, Maury, and Steve Wilco's all rolled in one
I think it is a great source for an argument
it proves just how crazy some people get and just how far they will go to get the truth

btw who in their right minds
(I know that's the obvious missing factor)
has not just a sword but swords within the home

Yeah more info is needed desperately
i would like to know how old the grandson and the brother in law are
and if that will carry any weight in the eventual charges against them

I find it unlikely that the stabee doesn't knows that they killed her (poor grandma)
so why wait for the police to waste tax dollars in their flashy CSI type crime lab
just to come to that conclusion

They not only have a killer on their hands
they most likely have a coward

[J m HofMarN]

the grandson is 40 the guy he was fighting was almost seventy I think.

And I myself have two swords in my room, plus a mace and four more swords stored elsewhere. And a dagger and a long bow.

[TruJade]

Well of course YOU
have weaponry of that sort
its to be expected

But these men are Adults
not just some 20 somethings
dueling it out they should have know better

[Vesuvius]

Well TruJade, you'd be surprised then with the number of people that have weaponry in their houses. It is not uncommon either to find older people (males really) with an actual functional swords and such in their homes. The internet and various conventions sell them for cheap now a days.

We may never really know the full details of this duel, but I won't exclude the notion that both of these guys had it out for each other. Being that their ages are past 35, I'm thinking that this could have been an "honor" duel. I'm betting that the 70 year old quite possibly has a number of years of training under his obi (belt). Usually old men won't continue in a fight, let alone start one. I'm thinking he felt obliged to learn the youngin' a thing or two.

[TruJade]

(Sigh)
its bad enough that people have guns
but they need cross bows and swords too!

Ok even I have a lightsaber but
whats next? Will everyone carry sai and
throw ninja stars at there siblings?

But seriously an HONOUR DUEL!!!!!
my goodness they are a few centuries too late for that

and who cares if its family tradition
is it tradition for innocent bystanders to die?

This post has been edited by TruJade: 16 April 2009 - 12:23 AM

[J m HofMarN]

Wow I totally missed Civ's post. Though I consider this more a Hamlet thingy than a Romeo & Juliet.

And honor duels still occur. In South America especially, they were still occuring at least up to the 1970s. I'd challenge someone to one if I was really pissed off. And generally its conducted on neutral ground, not near gramma's house. And the seconds would be charged with keeping away interlopers.

[Vesuvius]

Will everyone carry sai and
throw ninja stars at there siblings?

But seriously an HONOUR DUEL!!!!!
my goodness they are a few centuries too late for that

and who cares if its family tradition
is it tradition for innocent bystanders to die?

Actually, I've seen it common in redneck families to torment the youngest with artificial Japanese weaponry.

Honor Duels still take place.

It's not tradition for innocent bystanders to die, but it happens nonetheless when the innocent intervene when people are swinging sharp objects at one another.

[civilian_number_two]

How is it more Hamlet? She was killed under his arm! That's like right out of R&J!

Ask for me tomorrow and you shall find me a grave old woman! On both your houses, a plague!

[J m HofMarN]

In R&J it was the interupter of the duel who was the lone survivor. Mercutio is killed under the arm of a well meaning Romeo, who then procedes to dispatch the Prince Of Cats and then dies. None of the combatants are family.

In this situation, the well meaning Romeo is killed, as is the fellow who was presumably challenged in the duel, while the Prince of Cats is alive. Unless we want to debate who is analogous to whom.

Whereas with the end of Hamlet, an old woman dies, so we have deaths in two generations of the same family and a duel, a young man killing an older man while an old lady looks on, who later dies. Keep in mind that the guy who started the duel hasnt killed himself, but still might, which would further bolster my argument.

Failing that, I'm going to say that this is a clear case of homicest and leave it at that.